Subject and answer

diverse

ALTE DOCUMENTE

Carte

COSMOGONIA CHINEZĂ

VIOLENTA IN MEDIUL SCOLAR

VARIANTE ENGLEZA

Vino in echipa WEB EXPERT!

PRISON BREAK - Seria 4

Montauk, Marte si alte conspiratii

SOFT

COMUNICARE

Baloane de sapun

Subject: Re: E-cards?

go to www.bluemountain.com and send her a romantic E-card about missing her.

I've heard the suggestion of sending e-cards before in here, but in my experience, when girls send me e-cars, I delete the url's, never bother to take a look at the card and basically, discount those particular girls altogether. to be honest, I'm not even sure why. sending e-cards seems so cheap and easy, maybe I sense that they think I'll be as cheap and easy as well then, dunno. so I in turn have never really bothered to even consider sending an e-card.

I know they take a bit of time to send. So I go ahead and read em.

ok, for one thing, I understand some of you may be playing the numbers game in the hope that a few chicks will fiind e-cards a turn-on rather than a turn-off.

As an experiment I made contect with 4 woman 2 weeks ago. I then got so busy I didnt have time to chat so instead I sent em e-cards. Out of the 4 - 2 woman kept sending me very sweet replies and they would escalate the romantic content of the cards they sent back. I eventually got pics from each one. One was ugly as shit. The other is a BABE! She sent me a nude pic. I'm arranging a meeting with her. She wants my bone.

Woman as so sentimental. Their not like us men in this regard. They love romance. Romance to a woman is a big turn on. for man a turn on is some gal coming up and rubbing her titties on you. Woman think of romance the same way.

Bu when you play quality over quantity (as I'm not yet able to have both, meaning a substantual quantity of quality girls, in which case the numbers game really starts to count:), is that really wise? or alternatively, my whole foundation here is wrong and the e-cards seem to be more of a turn-on rather than a turn-off?

what's your experience guys?

My experiance is some woman put ALOT of stock in them. I've had woman fall inlove with me after the first card.

Subject: Re: Conversation Pieces?

Could you send me a sel pic to magic26man@hotmail.com? Itll remain private. i just want to see what you look like. I can tell from this post you really understand the field. its all very sound stuff.

Yes, have some kind of a game plan (for fuck's sake don't talk about the weather). As sadi in earlier posts: 1) have some kind of OPEN ENDED approach question (it will normally begin with the word 'what').

2) have at least one other OPEN ENDED follow up question, preferably more than one, to defend you against stalling.

3) By the time you've reached this stage. providing your questions were interesting enough, you are 'in conversation'.[There's an interesting phenomena here, on which I'd like the rest of the group's comments. Before point 1) above, you are a stranger & the woman is wary of you. At point 2) she's still wary, but talking. By the time you've hit point 3) - and it doesn't matter if it's one woman or a group - she/they have more or less accepted you and seem to drop their barriers a lot. All in a couple of minutes. How does this work psychologically?] To continue. If the HB is a a talker, paraphrase her and ask intelligent questions. Then ask some cheeky questions, maybe neg hit & get some of your own stuff in. If she's a listener, you'd better have something ready to talk about [or you're gonna CRASH and BURN] - a tale or two about your interesting and humorous exploits (laced with SS of course) that moves gently from being innocent into being more and more risque. Throw in negs if you need See reply to Maniac High wrt using stories, jokes & moving for the close.

Hey all.

This has probably been covered before, but I'm still wondering what are some good ways to start conversation after the initial approach, followed by greeting/introduction. Mainly in a club setting. This is how my approaches usually go after I've spotted and scoped out the target: me: (smiling) "Hi, how are ya?

her: "Hello. I'm fine thanks"

me: "good to hear. What do you think of the weather lately?"

her: "the weather? can't you think of anything else to talk about!?!?"

me: "umm ... , you like sports?"

her: "no"

me: "errr ... umm ... , heh. nice club eh?"

her: (thinking to herself now) "what a loser"

Just an example of course. I'm not actually THIS sad, but I do find myself searching for an initial conversation piece after the opener every time.

Is it a good idea to have it mapped out as to what should be said before the actual approach?

You have 2 options: 1) Both of you know you are tyring to fuck her. GET TO THE POINT!

2) Talk to her about bullshit and SS her while you are talking into feeling connected to then aroused by you.

Either way, you need a game plan and a desired outcome or else you are just talking shit.

Subject: Re: Conversation Pieces?

(do not say anything stereotypical)

me: (opening) you think spells work? (dont introduce yourself - dont say your name for the first two minutes)

her: not really

me: i myself hold a great deal of skepticism about it but thing is ... i was having a rather spirited debate with my friend sarah about this. SHE believes they work, like loves spells work, and I said, "we are nearing the 21st century for crying out loud ... but how do you use reason to convince a girl she is irrational if she cant understand reason in the first place?

are you REASONABLE?

her: i think so yes.

you: i SEEM it - but im sure you'll say something lame soon enough.

Subject: Re: who is BLACK here?

Whaouh! That's greeeeat. I'm gonna do it!

Oooh, best NEG so far. I have a digital camera. I take pix of the girl and show her the images right away on the back of the cam. Thing is, I purposely take really bad shots (mouth open, distorted 'i wasnt ready' faces) and when I show it they get all embarressed (ohhh erase that!) and zoom into the worst part of the photo and show it around to her friends and they laugh and then I say, "oh man everytime I look at you Ill think of this picture now."

That completely takes them off the pedestal they sit on in their head. Sure 10 guys hit on them before but I brought her to the emotional place I want her. I then take a shot of me and her and when I show it I say, "thats better. You know what? we look good." If she says YEAH, "which is more likely now" you are IN.

isnt that photo routine NEFARIOUS?

Subject: Re: who is BLACK here?

if a girl gives you the YOU'RE SO YOUNG routine, retaliate with that, YEAH, I'M JUST NAUGHTY BOY.

Subject: Re: Chat suggestions

talk about esp and its impossibility talk about how you met a bear while hiking talk about how you were scared shitless rock climbing when your rope snapped or the time you visited your friends friend with him and your buddy was almost beaten to death when the friend he visited had a boyfriend who came out and there was a 20 minute car chase through lights and you were looking for the cops but lot the crazed boyfriend before you found cops.

or the time you were in the hospital and it changed the way food tastes.

the birds sound clearer now.

or the time you netbused (hacked) into a bank but chickened out and put the money into a charity or talk about the famous person you met does she believe in ghosts? why?

you like candles and incense. what does SHE like? the music game modified for all types of objects.

play the question game with her or hotseat (like question game but more brutal) talk about the time you bladed down a steep hill and survived.

talk about the time you were on stage ...

mystery

Hi folks, I would like some suggestions about chat subjects. I could just continue to talk about what I want to but I think I would like to open up the floor for suggestions.

What are you curious about or what do you not yet fully understand. Maybe clarification of something I have said.

What do you think of an open mike night where any subject can be open for discussion.

Let me know what you think up, Tom - Tom Vizzini Atlanta Seminar July 23 24 25 100 DOLLAR DISCOUNT UNTIL JUNE 15!!!

Http://www.Essential-Skills.com

Subject: Re: getting approached ...

the best way to get approached is to use PAWNS. get 7s or 8s to hang around you and make them laugh and the 9s and 10s will see you are socially viable.

then they come to join the fun once you get eye contact with them.

Subject: Evening Report: Ms HB Seoul watches lambada and drinks at Starbucks.

Hi all, This evening, another field report. This evening's chick is HB Seoul. babe.

Maybe Mystery, or others with experience of shagging chicks they can't really talk to can add some suggestions to what I should do here.

So, here is this story, from the beginning to the end tonight, with all the details.

HB Seoul, is a 24 yr old Korean chick. She is a student at a Japanese school in Tokyo., who I met last year when I was studying there for a few months. We arranged a couple dates, which she missed or canceled (yes, I know, I didn't know about SS then, or anti supplication). I got mad though, and blew her out after this.

Then she called me a couple weeks ago out of the blue, after I blew her out for missing a date several months ago. I told her I was real busy, and she told me to call her sometime when I had time to see her.

HB Seoul is very cute, and very very thin/sexy. Definitely can't find this stateside. I met her in a Japanese class I was in last year. I didn't lay her tonight (though I think I will be able to the next time), but the language issues did raise some interesting points which I will discuss below.

So today, I called her, and she was free tonight. Wednesdays is my dance lesson night (I take lambada lessons, and am pretty good), so after work, I go to Roppongi, get pizza, and hang out in starbucks for an hour before the class, which is in a bar nearby.

I told her that she could join me this evening for coffee (yep.always coffee dates only, I told her I was busy for supper, like I did with Ms. Sparkles last week). Because of this chick's past experience with date noshows and other fuckups (she is a very flightly chick in this regard), I didn't take any time out of my schedule for her and was just going to follow by regular Wedneday schedule whether she came or not. She wanted to meet me in some other place and skip my class, but I told her that it had to be Roppongi, and I would go to class, and she could come watch me if she wanted. She agreed..

She showed up 45 minutes late (no surprise), so I was in Starbucks when she called my cellphone. I meet her, and do the french promenade thing with my arm. She rejects it jokingly. This is okay, it wasn't cold at all, so I don't worry as much (turns out I am right). She's hungry so she eats a spaghetti at Sbarro (she pays) and buys me a coke. We talk a bit, and I start my new routine which I made up last week after the Sparkles evening.

First I want to qualify her. I want to know what kind of girl she is, if she has a BF, and if there is any possibility I can fuck her. I find out her job, hobbies, age, whether she has a BF (I learned to not forget to ask this after the Ms. Sparkles fuckup). She doesn't have a BF (hasn't for 3 years, which I am a bit worried about.that is strange..a long time for such a cute chick).

I asked her why she didn't. She said that in her heart she couldn't find the right guy. I asked her what is the right guy like. She said someone who is honest, kind, warm heart. I asked her what that makes her feel. She said it makes her feel closer to the guy this way. I asked her why she couldn't find such a guy the last 3 years, as it shouldn't be so hard. She said that in her heart, she couldn't feel "right". I asked her what "right" meant, and she said that just "she could tell in her heart".

Then I ask her why she broke up with her old BF, and she replied. And here is where I started to have some trouble, mostly with language.

Ms. HB Seoul is Korean, and cannot speak a word of English, and her Japanese is at about my level, or a little worse. When I got to telling stories (about sex, GF's as NYC suggested), things fell apart because of grammar and language, just we could not communicate at all.

The words are too complicated for each of us (Mystery, in Russia, how did you handle this? Other suggestions guys?).

I took her hands along the way at the table, she doesn't resist, that is good. I give her a neg. about her nails, and later her hair.I touch her, stroke her hair.. She reacts okay. It is 7:50, and I tell her I am going to my class, and she can come if she wants. She says sure, so we leave the Sbarro pizza place. Once outside, I take her hand, no resistance at all, that is good. We hold hands the whole rest of the night. She asks me if I got a GF, so I say no (since she said no before). She asks me what kind of girl I like, and basically repeat to her the values she told me she likes in guys. She tells me she really likes guys. That is good (I guess, though I wonder why she hasn't got one then.but I've already been through that with her).

We get to the lambada place. I figure this will be interesting, because, she is going to watch me dance lambada with a whole bunch of sexy girls for an hour, and I am pretty good. I wonder what her reaction will be as well as the reaction of the other girls there will be too when I walk in with HB Seoul. Actually, it was pretty interesting, as we will see. We get to the place, about a 10 minute walk. I try to tell stories about old GFs that are sex related, but the language barrier gets in the way. I also jokingly ask about Korean girls, because it is said they stay virgins before marraige (I know this chick ain't no virgin).

She jokes and said that was a long time ago, but not now. That is a good answer.. I should have asked her whether she was a virgin, but I dont know the word for virgin in Japanese..oh well.

We get to the place, and HB Seoul doesn't want to do the lesson (no problem, she goes to sit at a table at the edge of the dance floor floor, and watches me). As I said, I am just going to do my regular evening, and she won't get in the way. Once HB Seoul redeems herself for her past fuckups, I will make time in my schedule just for her.

Anyways in this class, there are two chicks who I know like me to some degree, so I am interested in their reaction (one lives with her BF, but I am pretty sure I will get to shag her soon, if I want, the other I am just not interested in.also the chick who I got the phone number from several weeks ago, the one who said she has a BF when I asked, also was there, her reaction was also interesting too..more below).

Right away, the chicks take notice. The chick who I asked the number from 2 weeks ago, but said she had a BF, is *obviously* jealous. The other one, is being nice to me, and hitting on me as usual (the one I was not interested in). The third chick, who lives with her BF, *got mad at me!!*, with a grudge looking face. It was funny. Anyways the lesson begins and goes for 1 hr, HB Seoul looks bored, but pays attention to me when I smile at her, that is nice I guess. The funny thing is when I dance with the 2 chicks from above. The phone number chick, who was jealous, let it all out, and was all over me during the dance in front of HB Seoul. She'd never been this way before.

Jeoulousy obviously at work there (HB seoul BTW, was the cutest chick in the whole place), it was funny. Then I danced with the live in BF chick. She was hot and close, very very good, I could have fucked her tonight had I not been with HB seoul maybe. Jealously is a cool thing, and HB seoul was making a very good pivot the whole evening.

Anyways, I finish dancing 3 dances with the 3 girls, and I leave with HB Seoul, who didn't want to do any dancing/lesson (she was too embarassed, as the rest of us are all pretty good). Holding hands again, no problem. Now, here I got a problem though, because, I can't race the sexual thoughts in her mind, because of the language problem.

What do I do here guys? She didn't look ready for a kiss (no long stares.a little reciprocal touching, but not as much as I expect for when a chick is ready to be kissed..etc), so I didn't try to kiss her..the non verbal just wasn't right. Without talking, what could I have done here to move things along?

After coffee, we go home on the train, still holding hands, joking.

Before she gets off the train, I gesture to her to kiss me on the cheek. She does (in retrospect, after she did that, I should have gesures to have her kiss me on the lips. in retro -retro -spect..I should have had her do this all in the bar, got her to kiss me on the lips then got her outside, and rammed my tongue down her throght). I kiss her on the cheek too, we promise to meet next Saturday, and she gets off the train.

So, not too bad, but how could I get past the language stuff, and get into the Kino more considering the situation?

Subject: Re: Evening Report: Ms HB Seoul watches lambada and drinks at Starbucks.

Hi all, This evening, another field report. This evening's chick is HB Seoul.

Babe.

Maybe Mystery, or others with experience of shagging chicks they can't really talk to can add some suggestions to what I should do here.

So, here is this story, from the beginning to the end tonight, with all the details.

Then she called me a couple weeks ago out of the blue, after I blew her out for missing a date several months ago.

Returning Fox Technique - MAKE HER PAY TO GET BACK IN!

I told her I was real busy, and she told me to call her sometime when I had time to see her.

So today, I called her, and she was free tonight.

Oh well ... Returning Fox window of opportunity SHUT Wednesdays is my dance lesson night (I take lambada lessons, and am pretty good), so after work, I go to Roppongi, get pizza, and hang out in starbucks for an hour before the class, which is in a bar nearby.

how do you NOT pick up in Lambada Class? huh?

I told her that she could join me this evening for coffee (yep.always coffee dates only, I told her I was busy for supper, like I did with

Ms. Sparkles last week).

Good idea ... you can always EXPAND dates ... you can contract them also, but you put yourself in the bad position doing that. Tell them they have a little of your time and if you like how it's going, make a fake phone call in front of them and cancel your plans with "someone else"!

Because of this chick's past experience with date noshows and other fuckups (she is a very flightly chick in this regard), I didn't take any time out of my schedule for her and was just going to follow by regular Wedneday schedule whether she came or not.

Good thinking. Even if she doesn't show, you can work the Starbucks.

She wanted to meet me in some other place and skip my class, but I told her that it had to be Roppongi, and I would go to class, and she could come watch me if she wanted. She agreed..

Good again ... take control of the situation ... FUCK WHAT SHE WANTS!

She showed up 45 minutes late (no surprise), so I was in Starbucks when she called my cellphone. I meet her, and do the french promenade thing with my arm.

ERROR ERROR ERROR ERROR Why do you INSIST on doing these NON-SEXUAL, physical things that put you in a position to get rejected? What you want to do is TALK her into touching YOU or taking your arm or kissing you or asking you for a massage. What were you going to gain by walking with her like that? NOTHING. It's not stimlulating YOU sexually and certainly not her ... PLUS it's not even TIME to move into the K. You should have deliberately NOT touched her or even given her a kiss hello for that matter. Stay still and see if she comes to you to kiss. Keep walking and see if she takes your arm. If she doesn't, you know you have some TALKING to do.

She rejects it jokingly.

Jokingly or NOT ... you didn't FEEL GOOD about this did you? NO. I know because it has happened to me. You just told her that you feel more about the " 454n1313e ;date"

than she does. She is hanging out and you are dating. Complete difference.

This is okay, it wasn't cold at all, so I don't worry as much (turns out I am right).

Nothing to worry about EITHER WAY. It is something to use to judge your position relative to desired outcome.

She's hungry so she eats a spaghetti at Sbarro (she pays) and buys me a coke. We talk a bit, and I start my new routine which I made up last week after the Sparkles evening.

strange but good IF she is telling the truth. If you can snag a chick that HONESTLY hasn't devoted herself to a man (especially a Japanese chick) in 3 years, you may get a good chick for a LONG TIME! :) I asked her why she didn't. She said that in her heart she couldn't find the right guy.

see what I mean :) hehe I am responding as I read this. I didn't look at this line before I wrote my last line. This is your chance to demonstrate that you are the man she has been saving that ass for :) I asked her what is the right guy like. She said someone who is honest, kind, warm heart. I asked her what that makes her feel. She said it makes her feel closer to the guy this way. I asked her why she couldn't find such a guy the last 3 years, as it shouldn't be so hard. She said that in her heart, she couldn't feel "right". I asked her what "right" meant, and she said that just "she could tell in her heart".

don't DWELL on this type of stuff ... take her down as far as she can honestly represent to you then work from there. All you have to do now is bring up people that she feels love her and she loves them and anchor those feelings to you.

Then I ask her why she broke up with her old BF, and she replied.

Another error, slight, but important. You see how full of shit that last question is? It pulls her OUT of meta-stating about FEELINGS IN HER HEART!

MISTAKE! Obviously, she found out that he was not the one. Bringing him up at this point will only make her remember that men are all dogs. You should have asked her if she has ever been in love like that OR who in her life loves her like that. Talk about family or pets or best-girlfriends or ex boyfriends at the peak part of their relationships ... ANYTHING BUT THIS!

And here is where I started to have some trouble, mostly with language.

The words are too complicated for each of us (Mystery, in Russia, how did you handle this? Other suggestions guys?).

Don't you think she KNEW THIS BEFORE SHE CALLED YOU BACK? She knows you can't communicate well, yet she STILL wanted to date you. HEL-LOOO! Get a clue!

Should have been a fatal flaw, but she overlooked it to come and be with YOU!

I took her hands along the way at the table, she doesn't resist, that is good.

read above. TALK her into touching you, don't initiate. If you have to touch her, be ready to escalate ASAP!

I give her a neg. about her nails, and later her hair.

Because? Why did you need to neg her? I think Mystery needs to teach a course on the correct and effective use of negative comments :) I touch her, stroke her hair.. She reacts okay. It is 7:50, and I tell her I am going to my class, and she can come if she wants. She says sure, so we leave the Sbarro pizza place. Once outside, I take her hand, no resistance at all, that is good. We hold hands the whole rest of the night. She asks me if I got a GF, so I say no (since she said no before).

so what? why are you following her lead? what were you going to do if she said yes? phantom girlfriend? why? don't react to her actions. figure out what answer gets you closer to your desired outcome. Let's say the desired outcome is fucking her. Let's say you elicited her values and found out that she doesn't want a MAN right now, just a one night stand. By saying you are single, you give her the impression that you may get attached to her. If OTOH you told her you are taken, but are still there holding her hand, she knows that you are willing to fuck her and stay with your woman - quicker route to the fuck. Assess position relative to desired outcome ... NOT relative to some shit some chick told you which may or may not have been A LIE!

She asks me what kind of girl I like, and basically repeat to her the values she told me she likes in guys.

ERROR You like girls ... JUST LIKE HER! Fuck what she wants! How do you know that she considers herself to be the type of person that she is looking for? I know a chick that fucks all the time behind her boyfriend's back. She told me that she KNOWS her boyfriend does not cheat on her. If I had elicited her values and found out that she wants a guy that won't cheat on her, then she asked me what kind of girls I LIKE ... what happens to me if I say I like girls that don't cheat on their men? NOTHING! NO FUCK! Instead, I tell her that I like girls that ... and fill in ALL the blanks with what she believes about HERSELF!

She tells me she really likes guys. That is good (I guess, though I wonder why she hasn't got one then.but I've already been through that with her).

I hope she likes guys We get to the lambada place. I figure this will be interesting, because, she is going to watch me dance lambada with a whole bunch of sexy girls for an hour, and I am pretty good. I wonder what her reaction will be as well as the reaction of the other girls there will be too when I walk in with HB Seoul. Actually, it was pretty interesting, as we will see. We get to the place, about a 10 minute walk. I try to tell stories about old GFs that are sex related, but the language barrier gets in the way. I also jokingly ask about Korean girls, because it is said they stay virgins before marraige (I know this chick ain't no virgin).

She jokes and said that was a long time ago, but not now. That is a good answer.. I should have asked her whether she was a virgin, but I dont know the word for virgin in Japanese..oh well.

listen ... you are STILL wasting speech. Talk about whether she is a virgin or not when you are holding her.. when you can get close enough to kiss her.

Don't talk about that stuff like a casual reference! That's like crying wolf.

By the time you are ready to go sexual with the date, she thinks you are saying some BULLSHIT like when you were walking down the street to the lambada place and started talking about sex for nothing then JUST DROPPED THE SUBJECT!

Oh PLEASE! Redeems herself? How? YOU didn't make ANY DEMANDS of her at all!

You let her back in the door FOR FREE! NO ADMISSION! Fuck up ALL YOU WANT and come back ANY TIME YOU WANT and I will accept you like nothing happened. I have NO OTHER chicks that I could be spending time with today besides you.

Every chick I know fucks up on me like you did, so no hard feelings OK?

Somebody asked me WHY I respond to outfoxer. I was not hip to this Returning Fox shit until I read his site. It is the truth. WHY let a chick back in FOR FREE when you can say FUCK YOU! You can hang with me when you are ready to suck my dick! What have you got to lose? A chick that you THREW AWAY ALREADY?

She's already trash! Go for broke and if she doesn't like it FUCK HER! She can leave until she's ready to pay her dues!

good multi-hit and playing chicks against each other, but you should have told the chick that didn't give you the number the other week in her ear "she's getting the fucking YOU should have gotten tonight". Let her think about you fucking that chick TONIGHT while she's masturbating!

at least that's good. If you are in a bad or vague position, STALL. Stall yourself until you can see your way clear again toward the desired outcome or until something changes that you can react to. It's better to even end the night if you have to and pick up the next date on a really good note than to sour it like that chick you tried to kiss ALL THE WAY HOME last time :( We go to starbucks, and I try to talk some more with my electronic dictionary.

HAHAHAHA LOL now THAT'S FUNNY! :) I feel for you there man :) I would never go that far for a date :) if they can't understand my A, all chicks in the world understand V and ESPECIALLY K. I show them with my eyes and my actions and the way that I touch them what I want from them tonight. They either get with it or get away from me. Don't ask me HOW I do it ... I don't even know myself.. like when I came out of the dream about the chick on the street today and she was smiling at me. I don't know WHAT she saw or was respoding to, but she was smiling about something and it was all for me :) I ask her about the differences between Japanese and Koreans, and Koreans and Americans, to try to get more values. I give up on stories about sexual experiences, because there are too many words she doesn't know and I don't know.

After coffee, we go home on the train, still holding hands, joking.

did you figure out already what you NEVER DID the whole night? Besides the obvious fact that you didn't make her pay AT ALL for coming back to you and you didn't let her know that you won't tolerate any more fuckups or incredible 45 minute latenesses ... well you did at least continue with YOUR schedule regardless of whether she made it on time or not. If you want to, try telling late chicks that if they are not there by 7:15 or whatever length of time you think is reasonable after the agreed time, DON'T SHOW UP AT ALL and you will NOT hang out with her AT ALL if she misses her mark. You could give her an out by telling her she can call you before 7:15 if she has a REALLY GOOD reason, then you will decide what you are going to do about it. Anyway ... you NEVER LET HER KNOW THIS MEETING WAS ABOUT SEX! I know you mentioned throughout that language was a barrier, but come on!

This is NOT just to Maniac, but to ALL OF YOU!

STOP BEING SCARED TO LOSE BITCHES BECAUSE YOU ASKED THEM FOR SEX!

Unless your style is to keep talking and talking and talking for months to chicks that are stalling you, fuck them! Your time is better spent FINDING chicks that like you and WANT to fuck you and suck you than trying to convert chicks that are not with it. And for you Maniac, you sarge more than anyone, so chicks should be COMPLETELY EXPENDABLE to you. Blow them out! Not by throwing your patented "you spent all my money tonight!" tantrums :) Go for what YOU want and if they don't want to give it to you, tell them they can see you again when they are ready to give it up.

So, not too bad, but how could I get past the language stuff, and get into the Kino more considering the situation?

Make like Nike ... Just Do It

Subject: Re: Evening Report: Ms HB Seoul watches lambada and drinks at Starbucks.

Maybe Mystery, or others with experience of shagging chicks they can't really talk to can add some suggestions to what I should do here.

So, here is this story, from the beginning to the end tonight, with all the details.

-Stop here. She's a "Returning Fox." If she calls you out of the blue, you pick up where you left off, the only difference being you won't be rejected by her EVER again. If she does reject you, you send her packing.

So today, I called her, and she was free tonight. Wednesdays is my

dance lesson night (I take lambada lessons, and am pretty good), so after work, I go to Roppongi, get pizza, and hang out in starbucks for an hour before the class, which is in a bar nearby.

-Going out is for people who don't stand you up. Once a woman stands you up, it's straight to the bedroom if she returns. Rules are rules. Hold your ground and watch in amazement what happens.

I told her that she could join me this evening for coffee (yep.always coffee dates only, I told her I was busy for supper, like I did with Ms.

Sparkles last week). Because of this chick's past experience with date noshows and other fuckups (she is a very flightly chick in this regard), I didn't take any time out of my schedule for her and was just going to follow by regular Wedneday schedule whether she came or not.

-You missed an opportunity for guaranteed sex or a stonewall; either is superior to this.

She wanted to meet me in some other place and skip my class, but I told her that it had to be Roppongi, and I would go to class, and she could come watch me if she wanted. She agreed..

-Was there a reason she couldn't have dropped the phone, and just come over there and had sex with you? Be most aggressive with Returning Foxes.

She showed up 45 minutes late (no surprise), so I was in Starbucks when she called my cellphone.

-You are now paying the price for not doing the above.

I meet her, and do the french promenade thing with my arm. She rejects it jokingly. This is okay, it wasn't cold at all, so I don't worry as much (turns out I am right). She's hungry so she eats a spaghetti at Sbarro (she pays) and buys me a coke.

We talk a bit, and I start my new routine which I made up last week after the Sparkles evening.

-Not really. But you are creating hurdles for yourself. You had your power when she called you initially. Now you are rebuilding what you already had. You shouldn't have time to figure out her love life; either she wants you or she doesn't, and you really don't like being stood up.

I asked her why she didn't. She said that in her heart she couldn't find the right guy. I asked her what is the right guy like. She said someone who is honest, kind, warm heart.

-And ...

I asked her what that makes her feel. She said it makes her feel closer to the guy this way. I asked her why she couldn't find such a guy the last 3 years, as it shouldn't be so hard. She said that in her heart, she couldn't feel "right". I asked her what "right" meant, and she said that just "she could tell in her heart".

-Code words.

Then I ask her why she broke up with her old BF, and she replied. And here is where I started to have some trouble, mostly with language.

The words are too complicated for each of us (Mystery, in Russia, how did you handle this? Other suggestions guys?).

-Um, dancing?

I took her hands along the way at the table, she doesn't resist, that is good. I give her a neg. about her nails, and later her hair.I touch her, stroke her hair..

-With an Asian chick this isn't much progress. They will tolerate a lot and save their defenses for the Red Zone, which is why you should have gone for sex immediately after she returned.

She reacts okay. It is 7:50, and I tell her I am going to my class, and she can come if she wants. She says sure, so we leave the Sbarro pizza place.

-Product placement!

Once outside, I take her hand, no resistance at all, that is good. We hold hands the whole rest of the night. She asks me if I got a GF, so I say no (since she said no before).

-How about saying "you tell me" instead?

She asks me what kind of girl I like, and basically repeat to her the values she told me she likes in guys. She tells me she really likes guys.

That is good (I guess, though I wonder why she hasn't got one then.but I've already been through that with her).

We get to the place, about a 10 minute walk. I try to tell stories about old GFs that are sex related, but the language barrier gets in the way. I also jokingly ask about Korean girls, because it is said they stay virgins before marraige (I know this chick ain't no virgin).

She jokes and said that was a long time ago, but not now. That is a good answer.. I should have asked her whether she was a virgin, but I dont know the word for virgin in Japanese..oh well.

-Just as well.

-Message to guys: ignore women ... be seen with one sexy one. It's sad women think this way really.- Anyways, I finish dancing 3 dances with the 3 girls, and I leave with HB Seoul, who didn't want to do any dancing/lesson (she was too embarassed, as the rest of us are all pretty good). Holding hands again, no problem. Now, here I got a problem though, because, I can't race the sexual thoughts in her mind, because of the language problem.

-End the evening. Your mistake was much earlier. You are in a poisoned position here. Well, tainted anyway.

We go to starbucks, and I try to talk some more with my electronic dictionary. I ask her about the differences between Japanese and Koreans, and Koreans and Americans, to try to get more values. I give up on stories about sexual experiences, because there are too many words she doesn't know and I don't know. After coffee, we go home on the train, still holding hands, joking. Before she gets off the train, I gesture to her to kiss me on the cheek. She does (in retrospect, after she did that, I should have gesures to have her kiss me on the lips. in retro -retro -spect..I should have had her do this all in the bar, got her to kiss me on the lips then got her outside, and rammed my tongue down her throght). I kiss her on the cheek too, we promise to meet next Saturday, and she gets off the train.

-You think if she knew your true thoughts she'd want you?

So, not too bad, but how could I get past the language stuff, and get into the Kino more considering the situation?

Comments guys? Opinions/ suggesstions.. rip it apart!

-You had the most power at the point she returned. Save your aggression for that position and you'll be fine. The more up-front you are about what you expect, the more likely they are to give it to you, even though they might first test you to see if you can hold your ground when things aren't going your way.

Outfoxing The Foxes: How To Seduce The Women Of Your Dreams https://www.cybersheet.com/fox/index.html

FREE INFO ON THE SITE FOR MEN AND WOMEN Charming Prince Charming: How To Marry The Man Of Your Dreams https://www.cybersheet.com/prince/index.html __________ ______ ____ __________ ______ ____ _____ Get the Internet just the way you want it.

Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!

Try Juno Web: https://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

Subject: Re: Evening Report: Ms HB Seoul watches lambada and drinks at Starbucks.

NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 16 Jun 1999 23:22:52 GMT References: 19990616.175111.-202697.39.OutfoxxxReddFoxx@juno.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: 19990616192252.07645.00000399@ng-ck1.aol.com Lines: 85 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:47387 Status: RO She wanted to meet me in some other place and skip my class, but I told her that it had to be Roppongi, and I would go to class, and she could come watch me if she wanted. She agreed..

-Was there a reason she couldn't have dropped the phone, and just come over there and had sex with you? Be most aggressive with Returning Foxes.

hmm ... now THAT is a stonewall. I hadn't even considered that when I replied earlier. I recommended stonewalling her if she didn't put out immediately upon seeing her ... however this is even better! Still more aggressive. I am not even going to talk to you any more about SHIT! Come over her and suck my dick NOW or I am hanging up, and don't bother me any more unless you're calling to sex me! HAHAHAHAHA I feel so evil!

The words are too complicated for each of us (Mystery, in Russia, how did you handle this? Other suggestions guys?).

-Um, dancing?

hahahaha straight to the K I took her hands along the way at the table, she doesn't resist, that is good. I give her a neg. about her nails, and later her hair.I touch her, stroke her hair..

-With an Asian chick this isn't much progress. They will tolerate a lot and save their defenses for the Red Zone, which is why you should have gone for sex immediately after she returned.

does anyone have any evidence to corroborate this? I need the information because my wing is into chinese chicks and so now I have to find ways to deal with "traditional" chinese chicks. The americanized ones I can handle :) I know that they are submissive / don't give many opinions ... but I would assume that would continue all the way to the bedroom, thus the great number of "Joy Luck" couples. I am interested in this save their defenses for the Red Zone idea. That would be a REAL trap of chicks that give out the number and come on to you a lo, then you have trouble fucking them. Personally, if I can get my hands on American chicks in a private place and they don't have some sort of MORAL hangup like not cheating on their boyfriends, I am in there. I see defense at the level of letting me isolate them, because they know what's going to happen as soon as we get alone :) Once outside, I take her hand, no resistance at all, that is good. We hold hands the whole rest of the night. She asks me if I got a GF, so I say no (since she said no before).

-How about saying "you tell me" instead?

to what effect?

-End the evening. Your mistake was much earlier. You are in a poisoned position here. Well, tainted anyway.

That's what I said ... either STALL until you can see another way to the desired outcome or call it a night. I also agree that you fumbled at the phone call stage. You should have hardlined her.

There was one chick that I was verbally, directly trying to fuck. She seemed interested but kept flaking. I told her that she was crazy and bullshitting and DO NOT CALL ME ANY MORE! And got off the phone with her. No less than one week later (and to my utter surprise) she called me up and told me she wanted to come see me. She came over, we fucked. End of story. You really need to see when chicks are NOT going to produce your desired outcome and THROW THOSE BITCHES A-WAYYYYYYY! Don't pretend ... DO IT! Don't be lazy ... that time you spent with this chick could have been spent meeting 5 others instead.

I should have gesures to have her kiss me on the lips. in retro -retro -spect..I should have had her do this all in the bar, got her to kiss me on the lips then got her outside, and rammed my tongue down her throght). I kiss her on the cheek too, we promise to meet next Saturday, and she gets off the train.

-You think if she knew your true thoughts she'd want you?

NOPE! that's what I told him about the other chick. He keeps hiding his true intentions, but never comes with the deadly strike! Like Swayze said ... Be Nice ... Until it's time to NOT BE NICE! :) From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Wed Jun 16 19:21:38 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal11.airnews .net!uunet!dfw.uu .net!sea.uu .net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: Girls and Shy guys and OQing yourself Lines: 26 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 16 Jun 1999 12:39:00 GMT References: 3766e385@nemo.idirect.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990616083900.11381.00000106@ng-fo1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:47333 Status: O I go into a MATCH with the ideas that "I get girls". That's it and it makes it easier.

interesting point. that is actually one of the unnoticed bases for my style of PU. I get to know chicks on a totally bullshit basis started from some fluff and I never come on to them ... that is until I see definite signs. since I am not coming on to them, they feel free to tell me everything I need to know about their personal lives. I never fall into LJBF because I make SURE I tell them stories about myself and other chicks OR check out other women when they are talking to me :) When I get the signal, I move into the K and progress FAST using what I know they like because they TOLD ME earlier. I do all this stuff in one sitting. I like to know if a chick is bullshitting FAST then I can LJBF her or forget her entirely :) I think what you said is a foundation for my style. I don't HAVE TO come on to them because I always demonstrate personality. I always find funny things going on in the immediate surroundings and have interesting things to say.

Women find me strange/unique/bold and either hate me for it or love me for it.

Just hanging around with them and making them laugh and when it counts making them horny has always gotten me the chicks.

My attitude therefore is not only "I get girls" but "I got girls, I have always gotten girls, I IGNORE more girls every day than most guys MEET, I could PU a girl (just to talk, not to fuck) in seconds, there are more where she came from ... " I have an entire set of BELIEFS like that that keep me from bending over backwards or supplicating or paying or whatever.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Wed Jun 16 19:40:32 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!howland.erols .net!portc02.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: SS and "arty" females Lines: 11 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 16 Jun 1999 13:00:57 GMT References: 3767094A.9FDB5523@hotmail.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990616090057.11381.00000115@ng-fo1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:47336 Status: O Can SS really work to get a female to fall for you if you are not her type?? It seems that arty females really put up the "bitch shield" when any guy but an arty type of guy approaches her. Any opinion on this subject appreciated.

Greg (the big time SS novice) definitely. get her isolated where she cannot possibly meet one of these artsy guys. ask her IN DEPTH about sexual relations she has had with artsy guys ...

the BEST ONES she has ever had. She will get horny and link the feelings to you then fuck. case closed.

From nathan@metabork.fr.eu.org Wed Jun 16 19:49:53 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!dispose.news.demon .net!demon!news-lond.gip .net!news.gsl .net!gip .net!newsfeed.online.be!easynet-fr!buggy.easynet.fr!nathan From: nathan@metabork.fr.eu.org (Nathan SZILARD) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Wingmen - they're hard to find.

Date: 16 Jun 1999 14:12:49 GMT Organization: [Posted via] Easynet France Message-ID: slrn7mf8mk.oc.nathan@portn.icommerce-france.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.114.83.33 X-Trace: buggy.easynet.fr 929542369 15586 195.114.83.33 (16 Jun 1999 14:12:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynet.fr NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Jun 1999 14:12:49 GMT User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.4 (UNIX) Lines: 63 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:47347 Status: O I'm over excited at the idea of trying Mr Smooth's technique, as reported by maniac_high. I refer to it as "tarosan". Let's go tarosan, dude!

Problem: nobody wants to do it with me!!! I'm not kidding.

I have a good wingman, but that's just not his style. Well we've tried it but did'nt have much opportunity. Our only attempt was rather conclusive though: the one chick was laughing off her ass and kissed us both on the lips. Within 15 min. We did'nt bother much more since she was with friends and leaving the city the next day.

I tried to explain the methodology to several cool guys - they just freaked out!

2 days ago I tried with a cool irish friend of mine, he freaked out completely after 3 minutes. But we were IN!!!! Those two 9s were arrogant merkin bitches, with a LOT of friends (a dozen?) I got them to kiss us on the cheeks, and took pictures and stuff (gotta develop them - I will scan them and post) but the fuckin idiot gave up right away!

Mystery is so right - most guys are scared of the game. There is no competition.

I'm excited about Tarosan because it fits my style perfectly: I'm THE talk show host. I have zero problem talking absolute nonsense to absolutely anybody - be it Cindy Crawford or whoever you're supposed to be impressed by. The only problem I usually have is: WTF to say?? Taro san gives a straight forward answer: "My friend thinks you're bioutifoul, we should be friends, they are a great couple, we should go out together, etc ... "

And it fuckin' seems to work!

Next WE hopefully, I should see that guy who's hilariously funny and quite a good artist by himself. He told me several things about his technique.

Example: what back the time we were in hischool. There used to be slow dances in clubs & parties. Instead of getting in line and ask "wanna dance?" and get rejected 95% of the time like all the other dancers, he would go to the best looking girl and tell her, falsely annoyed, "Ok, I agree to dance with you because you're alone, but only one dance! And don't expect anything else from me!" and would grab her hips w/o waiting for any kind of reply.

What he does now is joke, after having gained some rapport, "So what have you planned for the next 20 yrs? - Huh, nothing?

- Great! Let's get married! Let's go to Las Vegas we can get married in 5minutes there!" and so on. All jokingly.

So we'll go try TaroSan next WE. Unfortunately saturday is a friend's bd party - and I know there won't be much fresh stuff there - gotta bring my own booze.

Comments?

From sandworm@mediaone.net Thu Jun 17 21:53:07 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!nntp.flash .net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!24.130.1.14!lsnws01.we.mediaone .net!clnws01.we.mediaone.net.POSTED!sandworm From: sandworm@mediaone.net (Ross Jeffries) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast,alt.psychology.nlp

Subject: Monday, June 21st, Chat on #Sargy channel on Phone Seduction!

Message-ID: sandworm-1706991828000001@we-24-130-19-1.we.mediaone.net Organization: Sargy Is God X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 Lines: 16 Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:28:00 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.130.19.1 X-Trace: clnws01.we.mediaone.net 929669060 24.130.19.1 (Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:24:20 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 18:24:20 PDT Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:47445 alt.psychology.nlp:39992 Status: O Bros, We will be hosting a chat on EFnet, the #Sargy channel, June 21st, 7pm Pacific, 10PM eastern on : Phone Sargin: How to Use Speed Seduction(R) over the phone!

All are welcome..disrupters will be kicked, so stay off unless you want to learn!

- Get Laid NOW!

Ask me how!

https://www.seduction.com Free Newsletters and Real Audio files!

From maniac_high@deja.com Thu Jun 17 22:41:12 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal11.airnews .net!uunet!dfw.uu .net!chi.uu .net!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!hub1.ispnews.com!news-master.service.talkway.com!c01read02-admin.service.talkway.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "maniac_high" maniac_high@deja.com

Subject: Maniac: follow up comments to Ms. Seoul HB report Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast X-Client-NNTP-Posting-Host: dragon1.jft.com/210.250.194.135 Followup-To: alt.seduction.fast Lines: 84 Message-ID: Em0a3.10337$Xr4.83104@c01read02-admin.service.talkway.com Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1999 06:13:56 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.200.3.205 X-Trace: c01read02-admin.service.talkway.com 929600036 216.200.3.205 (Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:13:56 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1999 23:13:56 PDT Organization: Talkway, Inc.

Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:47402 Status: RO Hi guys, Thanks for the replies on Ms. Seoul. Excellent! A few things,

I got a digital camera, and pictures. I am looking for an anonymous website to put them up, that isn't alot of hassle and grief. Once I find that, I will do that.

I also know how to do password/login stuff (mystery), will see about that too ...

Re: NYC's, Outfoxxing's comments.

I have now read outfoxing's page on 'returning foxes'.

This was my first time I experienced this, so now I am prepared for the next time and won't fuck it up again.

Oh, why I don't pick up chicks in Lambada class ... a personal choice really, I don't like shitting in the place where I live, ie.. there are plenty of HBs out in town, I have no shortage of HBs (shagged 15 last year, and am shagging 5 now), so I prefer this, and I never have to see them again if I don't want to, where as a lambada chick, she'll always be there week after week ... ;-( , so it is less complicated at breakup time if I leave the lamabada chicks alone.. Better, to get a new chick, and 'teach' her lamabada and fuck her that same night (I've done that several times actually ;-) ) Re: not bringing up sex stuff early.

Yep, this is a problem, I know.. To be honest, I just don't know how to do this, I need examples from start to end in detail. I would say this is the last missing piece, because I can pick them up with no problem, and once I get past the 'sex talk', I can always lay them.

Once I get past this, I am very sure that I will be lethal..

Re: NYC; not asking what a chick wants in a guy, but rather ask her her own values and emulate that instead ... Absolute fucking wisdom NYC. I did have a problem with this last night, because it did violate my rule of "never listen what a chick says she wants, look at what she does". your answer fixes this issue.

BTW, NYC, maybe this would be really helpful. Would you mind looking at my Ms. Sparkles story, and my Ms. Seoul story, and then rewrite them (from the very very beginning, when you first contact/meet the chick) as to how you would have done the same "date" differently if it were you.

Ie. what you would have said/done/gestured and how she would have reacted (I know, its fiction, just use your past experiences, it is just an example). This will tell me and other readers (David Shade?) what I am doing wrong/different, and clue me in better as to what the better way is. Like you said, I know what I am "not doing right", but I don't know what "right" is..so I cannot fix it ...

If possible, be as detailed as you can.

Rather than say "I put my tongue down her througt", say what you did/said just before, what she did/said..etc.

This is really important, the lead ins are key. As an example, when I say sparkles sitting in the stairs the first time at the bar, what would you have done..start from there.., until the shag at the end. With Ms. Seoul, same thing, right from when you get the first phone call, what would you have done, until you shag her at the end.

That would be great, and so helpful!

Excellent post NYC, and Outfoxxing guy (never thought I'd say that, but outfoxxing's stuff was good this time ... now if we can only get Ross to also contribute useful stuff to people's discussions rather than spam lawyer shit only, that would be even more cool..).

On the agenda, tonight, an outing with Mr. Lager, and weekend, the new Smooth/Maniac technique put to the test in Shibuya.

Maniac - Posted via Talkway - https://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything (tm).

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Thu Jun 17 23:56:20 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols .net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: The BIG Question.

Lines: 41 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 18 Jun 1999 01:45:11 GMT References: 7ka6ue$b9v$1@nnrp1.deja.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990617214511.06505.00000256@ng-fo1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:47447 Status: O A Guy wrote: What DO women want???

That's important. Why do you think we always ask "so what do you do?"

thanks for asking lilith :) what I do for a living is teach women how to orgasm ... interested? for a small fee I would be willing to er ... see what I can do for you I know I don't want to be supporting his ass. I want him to make as much or more than I make.

please please ... mainly irrelevant. first of all supporting me ASSUMES a relationship. second, even though I know you were just joking :) you are not taking into account what YOU really need a man for ... shall we check DejaNews?

hmm? I remember asking you if you wanted that guy's trust fund and you replied something to the effect of "It's certainly not his money ... I make my own money"!

oops ... BUSTED :) now ...

since you don't need a man to support you yet you also don't want to support him, what is REALLY important to you in a relationship lilith? I submit that if your sole purpose for having a MAN in your life is to make you feel that liquid heat way down inside and slide a taste of the good life across your tongue, then if you met the man pointing to himself, you would support him regardless of whether sampson had 2 goats or 4.

PS We also want him to be totally perfect, in other words we want him to be a woman with all the guy qualities.

hahaha methinks you need a lesbo with a strap-on :) (goin' back into lurk mode) (waiting in my tree-perch for the next lilith sighting so I can get a clean shot) From nathan@metabork.fr.eu.org Fri Jun 18 00:39:30 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!easynet-fr!buggy.easynet.fr!nathan From: nathan@metabork.fr.eu.org (Nathan SZILARD) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: Maniac: follow up comments to Ms. Seoul HB report Date: 17 Jun 1999 09:33:30 GMT Organization: [Posted via] Easynet France Lines: 16 Message-ID: slrn7mhcmp.1fk.nathan@portn.icommerce-france.com References: Em0a3.10337$Xr4.83104@c01read02-admin.service.talkway.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.114.83.33 X-Trace: buggy.easynet.fr 929612010 50471 195.114.83.33 (17 Jun 1999 09:33:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynet.fr NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Jun 1999 09:33:30 GMT User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.4 (UNIX) Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:47414 Status: O On Thu, 17 Jun 1999 06:13:56 GMT, maniac_high maniac_high@deja.com wrote: | Hi guys, | | Thanks for the replies on Ms. Seoul. Excellent! A few things, | I got a digital camera, and pictures. I am looking | for an anonymous website to put them up, that isn't | alot of hassle and grief. Once I find that, I will do that.

| I also know how to do password/login stuff (mystery), will | see about that too ...

I can open you an account on metabork.fr.eu.org . I can do that for all the regulars here. Mail me privately.

Cheers.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Fri Jun 18 00:39:53 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: Maniac: follow up comments to Ms. Seoul HB report Lines: 141 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com

Date: 18 Jun 1999 03:06:07 GMT References: Em0a3.10337$Xr4.83104@c01read02-admin.service.talkway.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990617230607.25274.00001066@ng-cm1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:47455 Status: RO Re: NYC's, Outfoxxing's comments.

I have now read outfoxing's page on 'returning foxes'.

This was my first time I experienced this, so now I am prepared for the next time and won't fuck it up again.

good ... could have avoided ALL that shit :) Oh, why I don't pick up chicks in Lambada class ... a personal choice really, I don't like shitting in the place where I live, fair enough ... like I said you sarge more than anyone here :) I was curious though why you would not use a CAPTIVE AUDIENCE where the K interaction was not your fault at all. I see why though and agree completely. However if that's truly the case, you shouldn't have asked that chick for her number and let her turn you down. Sarge or don't sarge. Don't flake :( Re: NYC; not asking what a chick wants in a guy, but rather ask her her own values and emulate that instead ... Absolute fucking wisdom NYC. I did have a problem with this last night, because it did violate my rule of "never listen what a chick says she wants, look at what she does". your answer fixes this issue.

that's not actually the correct rule.

the rule is LISTEN to what a chick says ... ONLY in the context of what you know about her. If you don;'t listen, you don't hear. If you don't listen and she says "fuck me", what then? NOT LISTENING is idiotic! Just don't base ANY of your behavior or statements on what she SAYS. You elicit her values FIRST.

Find out who she really is, then when she says things you can judge them against what you have perceived to be her true nature and decipher what she is talking about.

Example ... you live downtown and the chick you are with lives uptown from where you are eating. The chick wants to go out drinking after you finish. You suggest going uptown to get closer to HER HOUSE. She vetoes that and wants to go downtown ... closer to YOUR HOUSE. How do you take that? There is no way to know unless you know how her mind works already. Either she is making it HARDER for you to get to her house or EASIER to get to your house. The glass is half empty or half full. In this particular scenario, the feelings you elicited from her regarding your house and her house are essential. If you know she has NO INTENTION of going to your house, you can assume she is taking you AWAY FROM her house and you need to act accordingly. If you know that she hates to fuck when her roommate is home and there is a 50% chance that her roommate is there now, you COULD assume that she is leading you TOWARD a place where the two of you can be alone ... your house. It could be something as simple as she has been to all the bars near her house and wants to try other bars ... sex has NOTHING TO DO with her decision (like when Hot Pants came to your house for Spaghetti). This is what you listen for, so you can read between the lines and make effective decisions which lead toward your desired outcome :) BTW, NYC, maybe this would be really helpful. Would you mind looking at my Ms. Sparkles story, and my Ms. Seoul story, and then rewrite them (from the very very beginning, That would be great, and so helpful!

Maniac hehe unfortunately, we EACH have certain pluses and minuses that make our individual styles USELESS to each other. For instance, I communicate with my eyes primarily. I can pull girls from across crowded dance floors or noisy bars. When I lock with them, it turns into a "what do you want" battle between me and her. If it is positive on both sides, we end up smiling at each other and I go to meet her or she comes over to meet me. No words. No gestures.

Just eyes. I don't know WHY that happens for me but it does. I can also communicate with babies like that. I can communicate love and caring to them through eye contact and facial expressions and they understand me and recognize me in a crowd of people after we connect a few times that way. Much of my behavior is based on things like that which are not unique to me, but everyone does not have that. Also, I work out a lot and it shows. I can walk into a place and have women OBVIOUSLY stare at my body and shamelessly compliment me on it. Again ... not unique to me, but it is one of the bases for my style of meeting and relating to women. For me to say what I would say or do in a situation would be USELESS because there are so many parts that I don't understand myself, that whatever I could post would NOT be of any use to you.

Also, I have BEEN through the situations you mention in your post A LONG TIME AGO :) These things would not happen to me any more because I analyzed and learned from my mistakes. That is one of the reasons I reply IN DETAIL to your posts. I am re-testing my logic. I am getting to live vicariously through your posts because I NEVER get into situations like those anymore. New York has no rappongi(sp?) BUT there is a WIDE selection of fine women here and especially in the downtown areas where the older males hire younger female secretaries with big tits and sleek business suit-skirt sets and high heels, you can have twenty 8+ chicks pass you just because the light changed to WALK!

:) Chicks here are completely expendable ... even if there weren't millions (literally, counting dogs and fine women alike) to begin with chicks move in all the time ... tourism is incredible here. Some of the finest foreign women YOU WILL SEE are around the hotels on the west side, or shopping on 5th avenue.

I can get rejected by 50 woman a day EASILY! I can do that over a lunch hour actually ... every day ... and NEVER talk to the same chick twice!

Now, before you guys try to laugh at the prospect of crashing and burning that much (not that I do it ... I'm no massochist) THE POINT IS that my rep remains the same after all of that! NONE of the chicks that turn me down will ever see me again, or be in my social circles. The odds are incredible against it in this town. I say all this as a background for ME being in one of your post-scenarios. Thinking about how expendable chicks are ...

When I meet a chick in a bar, do I get her number and make a date with her, or do I spend 15 minutes getting to know her and weighing her qualities vs what I am looking for in a woman then tell her BYE when she doesn't measure up and leave her there?

If I am out for coffee with a chick, do I bring her home with me WITHOUT KNOWING that she wants to fuck OR do I find out what she thinks about sex in general and taste her and feel her up a little BEFORE moving the party to my house?

If I threw a maniac-patented tantrum and blew a chick out and she calls me weeks later and wants a date, do I say "ok how about thursday" or do I say "why should I give you another chance to be with me? you threw away your chance when I gave it to you" and wait for her to tell me what I am going to get in return for letting her back in? Notice this is the same style I used on the GYRO chick that approached me. "why should I buy you a gyro?" Now I could have said "listen ... I'll buy you a gyro right after you suck my dick" just like you could have said to the Returning Fox "I am not going to waste ANY more of my time with you. Come over here NOW and sex me and you're back in." If she refused you could have told her "don't call me again until you're ready to fuck" and HUNG UP!

It is like a chess game. You want me to teach you openings and all that does is set up the middle game. Openings (different from openERS for you non-chess players) are important in the beginning, but that's all. It is useless to know variations of Ruy Lopez AFTER you lose your queen.

You want to be the type of chess player that can walk up to a mid-game that you didn't start and assess the position and make the best out of it. Either win it or stalemate if your position is that bad. The only way to learn to play chess starting from the middle ... is to play chess starting from the middle ...

constantly. Get yourself into situations JUST to get back out of them.

PRACTICE your field-work. Practice on ugly chicks if you don't have an abundance of HBs like in NYC, but you do have them in rappongi, so just get out there and don't try to score ... pay attention to what you are trying to accomplish. I'm sure you will in the process ACCIDENTALLY lay some of the chicks :) From danielt@primus.com.au Fri Jun 18 21:03:56 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal11.airnews .net!uunet!dfw.uu .net!ffx.uu .net!cyclone.swbell .net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!intgwpad.nntp.telstra .net!nsw.nnrp.telstra .net!not-for-mail Message-ID: 376A2E6B.4B87BBDC@primus.com.au From: Daniel danielt@primus.com.au X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CONNECTPCW (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: Signs that a guy should take note while hunting ...

References: 7k7rt7$ii9$1@news.mozcom.com 3767871C.9C89377@primus.com.au 7kd825$u8i$1@news.mozcom.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Internet Primus Cache-Post-Path: diddley.primus.com.au!unknown@ras1387.ports.syd.primus.com.au X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see https://www.nntpcache.org/) Lines: 109 Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 21:32:59 +1000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.134.0.92 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telstra.net X-Trace: nsw.nnrp.telstra.net 929705500 203.134.0.92 (Fri, 18 Jun 1999 21:31:40 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 21:31:40 EST Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:47479 Status: O Jean Paul Chia wrote: Basically in those types of situations (1 to 9). Do u have answers to them?

Boss Daniel wrote in message 3767871C.9C89377@primus.com.au ...

JP CHIA wrote: What are the usual or specific signs one must observe in gettin chicks?

1) Are they on their own? With other girls? guys? both?

If a girl is on her own provided you haven't got any problems with confidence, the next move is a casual approach with a casual opening. If the girl is with other girls, then you have to start with the ugliest one first, and work your way up from there. Its a great indirect neg hit on the hbs and disarms the cock block. I suggest you do not involve yourself when girls are with guys, that is considered a lack of respect and could get you into a physical encounter something which i know a bit about. But if you dont care for personal well being i suggest you befriend the guys before making any moves on the girls.

2) Are they working there?

If they are working there they will generally be polite to you but the danger is mistaking basic politeness as a sign of her wanting you in her pants. In fact hitting on girls at work is quite hard because they do not really have the luxury of time to have an extended chat with you and you do not have the time to run your ss.

3) Are they good looking (that should be number 1 actually)?

The better looking a girl is the less you must mention looks in your convo.

The uglier girls want compliments while the better looking ones are sick of them.

4) Are they drunk? drug fucked? dancing? sitting? standing?

If they are drunk the time that will need to be taken to move onto K will be shorter and the conversations can generally be kept simple. Same for drugs. If the girl is dancing you have got to begin by simply dancing next to her without doing any touching and looking like you are having a good time. Once you see her consistently smiling at you you may proceed. Of course you can force it if the girl really captures your fancy doing so through more physical dancing and seeing her responses.

Sitting girls are a good target, once again check if they are really on their own. Standing basically similar. You might even laugh with the girl at the attempts guys make and how they get rejected if they do.

5) Are they currently being chatted up?

Don't interrupt a guy who is chatting up a girl, especially if he looks like he can kick your arse. It is very very rude. Guys take it as personal offence if you are trying to take their meat.

6) Is the music too loud to have a decent convo?

An excuse to move to a quieter more intimate location.

7) Are you in control of your faculties? Sober, clear thinking enough to pick up?

Important if you want to be at your best. You need to be at your best in terms of being able to adapt and to have quick spontaneous responses to any test a girl might throw your way. Alcohol and drugs impair clear thinking because they make your mind focused on pleasurable bodily sensations. You can experience those later when you are fucking but at the club if your aim is to pick up do not drink too much.

8) Does her facial expression indicate presence of bitch shield?

If she looks like she can bite your head off, you must not under any circumstances approach with any hint of supplication.

In fact the most effective method is to match her expression and look as pissed off as her. "Are you as fucking bored as me tonight?"

9) Do her social encounters leave both parties happy/sad?

If she leaves every one happy, then she is basically a nice person, and perhaps is very well known socially in the club.

If not she is probably fighting off all the supplicating chumps.

10) Why the hell are you reading this? Go and get raped!

If you can.

Boss - From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Sat Jun 19 15:18:42 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!206.165.3.11.MISMATCH!nntp.primenet.com!dispose.news.demon .net!demon!news.idt .net!peerfeed.news.psi .net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: [fixed repost]: Outing report: The bad PU and personal ads approach! Meeting Ms. Spacey NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 19 Jun 1999 11:24:25 GMT References: 376afac3.1390594@news.crisscross.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990619072425.15721.00001953@ng-fp1.aol.com Lines: 207 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:47549 Status: O She can only process one thing at a(B (Jtime in her brain, you talk to her, and her face turns real serious(B (Jwhile she thinks, and then the smile returns, and eye contact returns,(B (Jand then the answer comes out. It was weird.

I don't use interrupts, but this would have been a good chick to try them out on.

She was nice, though, and(B (JI just said "Hi" when I made eye contact. (B good.

(JI asked her what her job was, and why she was here in the bar(B (Jtonight(to talk English she said). Then I started to do the IC with(B (Jher, and then got her values out,.. so far so good. Mr. Lager was(B (Jstanding by bored, so the chick went and got her friend over, (a 7,(B (Jcute, but dressed shitty). Then we could all talk. I started engaging(B (Jboth chicks as Lager was having a bit of a slow night, so then I was(B (Jdoing the same run down on chick two. It was not a dance bar, so it was(B (J-possible to talk to both chicks at the same time,this was cool. Better(B (Jthan yesterday. I asked them about themselves, and ask them to describe(B (Jtraits about each other (the chicks). Then I asked about BFs (no BFs),(B (Jand asked them what part about their bodies they thought were most(B (Jattractive to a guy (one chick said her legs, so I touched her legs,(B (Jand commented kiddingly about them. Reaction was good, laughing and a(B (Jbit of Kino. Very good. (B hmm. interesting. what part do they think is most attractive to guys. nice one, but not effective for me because I leave all sex references to the meta-states unless she asks me directly what I think of her body parts. the rest of the NG should take notice though.

(JI also realized a problem I have don$BCU(J tell stories, I(B (Jonly ask questions to elicit things. That is good, but not enough. It(B (Jbores the chicks, and I sound like an interregator, and it makes it(B (Jhard to direct conversations. I will improve this by learning how to(B (Jtell stories over the next week or two, about topics that will lead the(B (JPU in directions I want to go. I think this will help a lot (thanks NYC(B (Jfor that insight).

if she is a talker, ask questions if she is a listener, tell stories the outcome is the same. only way to mess up is talking to a talker and asking questions to a listener.

Actually, now that I think about it, I got a lot of(B (Jinteresting stories, that could get a chick excited, I will work on(B (Jthis more, story$BCJ(Jze it and try it tomorrow with Smooth, and in(B (Jthe coming outings. Anyways, as I talked about BF,s and attraction with(B (JMs. Spacey (Lager was starting to engage shitty dress chick),(B (J she started touching a bit more, and getting interesting, that was(B (Jnice. Then lager lost it with the 7 chick, so I suggested to Ms. Spacey(B (Jthat we meet again, and she said she wanted to meet again. I got her(B (Jnumber, and we moved on before obstacle 7 chick took my chick away.(B I know you were just practicing, but what did you get her number for? I mean what did you TELL HER you wanted to see her again for? probably nothing.

there is nothing wrong with that, but you could have hardlined her about some sort of physical interaction upon receiving her number. sort of playing a mild version of returning fox BEFORE she returns. it all depends on your style and if you felt like you displayed enough personality to run a game like that so soon.

(JThen we headed to a dance bar. I got in, got a drink, and did something(B (JI saw NYC did once, and some other new stuff..very good(B (JreactionsI was standing by the dance floor looking at chicks(B (Jdance. There are these two HBs sitting right near me. A Japanese guy(B (Jgoes, and makes a pathetic looking pickup and is instantly blown out.(B (JHe walks away with his head between his legs. Then I turn to HB white(B (Jskirt and tell her that that was the most pathetic PU I ever saw. Her(B (Jand her friend just burst out laughing and agreed! It was great, then I(B (Jpulled a chair up and started talking to them.

see. I told you. the comeraderie of BOTH OF YOU AGREEING that the other guy sucks! You never had to approach her BECAUSE you leeched off of HIS CRASH AND BURN!

There was an english(B (Jclassified ad magazine on the counter next to the table, so I took one,(B (Jand turned it to the "men looking for women" page, and asked them to(B (Jtell me which guy$BCT(J ads were interesting to them. I then found a(B (Jfew really raunchy ones ("a la I want casual sex and a fuck now, call(B (Jxxx), and translated those to them for their opinions after a "can you(B (Jbelieve that, like in RJ$BCT(J stuff.

excellent :) I will try something like this the first opportunity I get. They don't have personal ads lying around in bars here, but I could always pick up a paper before I go. I like that angle. sitting in a bar full of chicks looking for a chick in the personal ads :) That was a good in to(B (Jstart talking about sex to chicks, and see where they stood. HB white(B (Jskirt$BCT(J friend, HB tanktop, was basically saying "anything is(B (Jfine" (after she just blew out the japanese guy), so I figured she is(B (Jnot really serious, it was a reaction a lot like HB hotpants when I(B (Jasked her favoritte actor.(B how did you figure that? chicks don't make sense. they will reject a guy WITHOUT first testing him for the qualities they CLAIM to look for in a man.

The Japanese guy got shot down so fast, she COULDN'T HAVE judged him on anything but looks and confidence and "aura". She could not have judged his personality, education, earning potential, overall sense of humor, honesty ...

NOTHING! Meanwhile, she's talking to you for NO PARTICULAR REASON. Try not to make judgements about chicks because of what they say because you MIGHT act later upon your beliefs about her bullshit.

(JMr. Lager BTW, is totally disconnected, making it harder, but I am(B (Jstill in there. The chicks decide to go dancing (near me), so I just(B (Jwatch them a bit, and then dance hand in hands with a new chick I pick(B (Jup right near them (hey, HB white skirt didn$BCU(J invite me to dance(B (Jwith her, so I will just dance with another HB right in front of her!;(B of course. who is she? she has no claim on you until she announces it and acts on it to consummate the deal :) (Jha!). This got her jealous, and I got eye contact again soon, and a(B (Jsmile. After that song, I went back to Mr. Lager for a bit, and then to(B (JHB whiteskirt, and HB tanktop, and did Kino dancing with each of them.(B (JThat went great. I stop for a moment, and talk to Mr. Lager, standing(B (Jat the(B (Jedge, as he$BCT(J not looking well, and another Japanese guy makes a(B (Jpathetic pickup attempt, I go back to HB whiteskirt after and ask her(B (Jif that PU was any better, she bursts out laughing and we are hanging(B (Jon to each other on the dance floor hugging, it was funny.. I then(B (Jpoint out (a la smooth style), Mr. Lager, and say he is a much better(B (Jguy than that Japanese guy. She hangs on to me, and says, like(B (Jyou! That is cool. It is loud, and we keep dancing, touching(B TIME TO MAKE THE DONUTS!

(JThen I got to serious take a leak, so I go and tell them I will be back(B (Jsoon.

ugh :( you need to learn to capitalize on compliments. I'm not sure if you even said "thank you". when she is in the state of "this guy is better than other guys I know" you are in the best position to find out what benefits that status gets you. make her talk more about what makes you better than him. do something OTHER than leave a chick that A) has been drinking B) has been chumming around with you and C) just complimented you in a seemingly genuine fashion.

you have no idea how many times I have HELD IT in order to play out a line that will be destroyed or forgotten by the time I returned from the bathroom ...

forget about the chicks being GONE ALTOGETHER :) I take my leak, but meet one of the bouncers, and I talk to him a(B (Jbit (turns out he is really cool, and it is also good to know bouncers(B (Jin places you go to often..I end up taking 15 minutes). When I get(B (Jback, the chicks have left. (B good obstacle work HORRIBLE target work.

(JNo problem, as it was a research mission, and basically, that approach(B (Jworked, got me talking about sex, got me Kino, and distinquished me(B (Jfrom the wallflowers and other losers in the place, and got the chick(B (Jto like mes a guy, not a chump.

very good. that's what I tried to explain to someone else in the NG. I can stand either ON loser's row (which I don't recommend) or away from it in ONE PLACE, preferably near the women's room :) and I will not look like a loser if they take more than a cursory glance. That's because I have a plan in mind for them and I will demonstrate personality and direction to them immediately. It shows. chicks can sense when a guy is harmless. they NEVER get that from me.

This is cool, I consider it(B (Jprogress. Then I thought about what stories I should tell for the next(B (Jchick, and had another drink. Mr. Lager was having a bad night, and was(B (Jtelling me about how he couldn$BCU(J get eye contact and it was so(B (Jhard told him to not worry about eye contact, just get(B (Jattention, and get in there (sometimes he is really good, just this(B (Jweek was not his week ..)..it depressed me a bit, and I wanted to think(B (Jup some stories so I can get ready for tomorrow with smooth. So I go(B (Jhome on the last (midnight train), and think stuff up, and write this(B (Jreport..(B when your wing is BOMBING like that ... LEAVE HIM ON THE SIDE. he might get some sympathy chicks while you are sarging ... I doubt it though since he wasn't even getting eye contact. Also, you can talk about him as a "great, but shy guy" and the chicks are none the wiser because they can't HEAR anything he's saying to destroy the image you are creating.

(JSummary; NYC is right. Getting in, and distinguishing from "chump" is(B (Jreally important *EARLY ON*. Smooth techiniques are great to get in,(B (Jbut then *SWITCH* right away. The classifieds gimmick works well, I(B (Jwill try it again, as you can naturally get to a lot of talk about sex,(B (Jand extreme stuff right away, and naturally, since there are always so(B (Jmany crazy ads in those things, and they are in all the bars in Tokyo.(B (JYou can move on to stuff about guys, sex, and then Kino on the dance(B (Jfloor, it all works really well. Definitely will elaborate on this.(B that technique should yield good results because you can see what the chick agrees with and what she doesn't. find out how freaky she is.

(JThe chick I danced with to make HB whiteskirt jealous, I also did an(B (JNYC technique, of just standing next to her and looking at her dance.(B (JSoon after I got her attention, got eye contact, then took her hands(B (Jand we started dancing right there, together.. it was that easy.

mmmhm that's right.

That(B (Jwas also cool. She wasn$BCU(J an HB, but I was just wanting to use(B (Jher as a pivot for HB white skirt, so that was fine.(B From women_purr____for_me@juno.com Sun Jun 20 08:27:47 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!206.165.3.11.MISMATCH!nntp.primenet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei .net!news.alt .net!anon.lcs.mit.edu!nym.alias .net!mail2news Cc: ljacksn555@aol.com Date: Fri, 18 Jun 1999 08:49:49 -0400

Subject: Re: Seducing Married Women Message-ID: 19990618.084951.-203435.4.Women_Purr____For_ME@juno.com X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3,5-8,12-13,16-21,23 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Women Prefer ME women_purr____for_me@juno.com Mail-To-News-Contact: postmaster@nym.alias.net Organization: mail2news@nym.alias.net Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast Lines: 29 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:47483 Status: O Some Guy Writes: Since I've been reading this Ng, I have never seen a thread about how to seduce married women. Does anybody have any thoughts/strategies on how to pull this off succesfully? Also, does anyone have any personal experiences in an endeavour of this sort?-Thanks -Generally speaking, with a married woman you are competing only against her husband. Before you can answer that, you need details on the marriage. Until you have a reason to believe she wants you, just go for friendship. You make the minor moves, and let her make the major ones.

Talking about the other women you want and how happy you want to make them seems to work best. Then she wishes her husband were more like you, and from there it's not much of a leap for her to want you.

Outfoxing The Foxes: How To Seduce The Women Of Your Dreams https://www.cybersheet.com/fox/index.html If you have never done well with women, it's easier to fix than you think. There's enough free info on the site to get you laid.

__________ ______ ____ __________ ______ ____ _____ Get the Internet just the way you want it.

Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!

Try Juno Web: https://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Sun Jun 20 08:56:22 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: No sex!

Lines: 23 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 19 Jun 1999 01:35:07 GMT References: 19990618.171619.-203435.13.Women_Purr____For_ME@juno.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990618213507.23278.00001809@ng-bh1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:47529 Status: O But we have all been labeled whores because of those types of actions. And you guys are the first ones to label us.

seems to me that YOU labeled yourself a whore. Frankly I reserve the label "whore" for a chick that gets paid to fuck and since I won't be paying you, you should come up with a better term for your expliots. It's not every day that you succumb to my happiness :) -What's the male equivalent of the bitch shield? The jerk shield?

hahahaha I guess so. It protects me from bullshitting bitches :) if a chick wants to flirt with me, I get to the bottom of that shit QUICK! I will extract, isolate and attack her IMMEDIATELY and see what she is REALLY interested in. If she is a tease, fine.. she can keep me company while I meet other chicks. If she is not, I'll give her a wild ride and probably not ask her for her number :) I'm gonna be out on the prowl next week anyway ...

besides I only need to talk to chicks that demonstrate PERSONALITY and VALUE (not to mention NET WORTH!) not chicks that demonstrate that they can suck my dick :) From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Sun Jun 20 09:12:35 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!207.138.35.59.MISMATCH!nntp.primenet.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: Manchester Friday Lines: 188 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 20 Jun 1999 07:36:28 GMT References: 7kgk7b$ca$3@gxsn.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990620033628.18010.00002428@ng-fr1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:47636 Status: O What is Scorpio doing in the Gay Village, one might ask? Has he finally greased his arse and turned? Oh, no, no, no, no, no. This is one of the safest places in the city. Dozens of superb bars, bouncers/security staff everywhere (there were a few 'queer bashing' type knifings here a couple of years ago & they've really clamped down) - and the women know it and flock there to such an extent that the homos are grossly outnumbered at weekends.

now THAT'S smart :) incredible surveillance! more security, more chicks, fewer men ... great. I had never thought of a move like that, and never will :) however, it reminds me of about a time when I was planning to hang with my wing on a saturday afternoon and he has no cel phone, so I had to meet him so he could SHOP before we hung out. To make matters worse (I can't stand shopping) he HAD to go to stores in the secondary fag section of manhattan (not the west village). I was pissed, but there was no efficient way around it.

first of all, there were CHICKS GALORE! :) all spending money, all looking good, all into making themselves look pretty. mostly pairs of chicks ... not dykes, but mostly two chicks together which was perfect since we had two guys :) second of all, there were almost NO guys, and the guys that were around the area were either fags or non-aggressive males. I felt like the proverbial FOX in the hen house :) it was so beautiful. it was like we had signs on us saying we were the only guys in a 10 block radius that were actually going to fuck these women if they asked us to. No competition whatsoever. Plus, since my friend was actually shopping, we got the "same hobby" bonus :) See two twenty somethings dancing together (7&8) & shaking it about. OK, fuck how old they are, I can't miss this golden opportunity. Let's try the NYC approach. I get five feet behind the 8 at about 45 degrees and just stare at her ass.

sweet :) good positioning because her friend can see what you are doing, speeding up the time it takes for her to realize you're checking her out.

Her friend grins & points to me. The 8 half turns & smiles. I smile, move forward a little & get side on to her, then to about 30 degrees to her front, three/four feet away - she's really pumping it around now with me looking directly at her crotch and nodding appreciatively. Next thing she suddenly loses it, gets embarrassed, breaks into a giggling fit and joins her friend (who's also giggling like fuck).

ok, hehe since I did NOT expect you guys to actually go out and do this, I didn't mention one thing. I do not stare at the chicks until they run screaming from the dance floor :) the point of staring at them is A) because I like watching chicks shake their asses on the dance floor more than whores at strip clubs and B) I am forcing them to make a decision on me. The decision is I accept what he is doing or I do not. If she does not accept it, she can either LEAVE for another section (which happens quite often) or she can TRY to talk me down, which will never work. I will stand there staring at her tits until she SHUTS THE FUCK UP or LEAVES which was her first option to begin with.

If OTOH she accepts me standing there staring at her, it's time for some K action ... assuming I am not looking just to look. If I want to fuck her, I will move in on her as soon as she shows a good reaction to my behavior. When I move up she has three choices. Pyhsically attack me, which doesn't happen because I wait for vibe BEFORE getting within arms distance of a chick. LEAVE, which was her first option to begin with. KEEP DANCING WITH ME ... in which case I get as aggressive as I am feeling at the time.

You are staring BECAUSE you WANT HER! Not because you like to look at chicks :) what is in your mind is what you are going to do to her once you get that ass alone.

I approach head on, tell the 8 she's a nice mover but I can improve it for her, give her some lessons if she'd like to join me at Rock World. 'Oh we don't go there.' ERROR you have the chicks smiling at you AND talking to you and all you could think of is taking them to a DIFFERENT VENUE? FUCK THAT! play your line RIGHT THERE. your friends have to wait until you crash and burn, that's all there is to it! They rejected the club, not you. Anyway, that's lateral movement. You can't do anything to them in that club that you can't do RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE!

If you have to switch venues, do it for a purpose (getting something to eat ...

she likes drinks from one place, not where you are ... ) not for no reason at all.

I can't be arsed arguing about it, it's warm & stuffy: nice ass, but bollocks to it, bale out.

huh? for what? what are their names? where are they from? what do they do?

what is important to them in a relationship? what are their values? do they fuck men together as a team? what information did you get from them that told you to peel off? all you seem to have done was ask chicks to go somewhere they don't like to go. you should have stayed where THEY WERE COMFORTABLE and talked your game.

OK, Master Seducers. What did I do wrong? I didn't have chance to get Kino & had a coat in one hand and a drink in the other anyhow.

oh. that's what you get for being unprepared. in a club you need to be ready at all times to get as Kino as the chicks will allow IMMEDIATELY! you may not get a second chance if someone else steals your chicks.

Next minute, one of the barmen appears with a scowl on his face & interrupts. Ah, that's why she was stood at the end of the bar (duh!). Fade away discreetly (who's a fuckin chicken? barman=staff=bouncer friends=Dan with broken head. No thanks.) nobody would call you a chicken for avoiding ANY fight. you went out that night to FUCK, not to fight.

Right. Room 2. Now Daniel, take this brother, for may it serve you well.

hahaha sorry Dan ... looks like you'll NEVER live that shit down man :( that's the sacrifice you made for helping out the NG with your report :) I know SS orthodoxy says I should disarm the obstacles first - but I'm going to look fuckin stupid moving in on twenty odd yo's (and don't say 'well don't hit on them': you're obviously hitting, albeit subtly, by approaching). So what should I have done?

you KNOW a little LESS than you think :) yes you have to disarm obstacles ...

SECOND!

FIRST ... you have to approach the group as a UNIT! walk up to all three of them and say "Ladies". That way you are NOT approaching one in particular.

After you greet all of them equally, talk MORE to the 20 year olds than the 30 in order to neg her WHILE disarming obstacles. Once you are in good standing with them, work on her.

Whoosh. 'Why aren't you dancing?' 'People our age have got to be careful dancing. It takes a lot of energy.' 'Not as much energy as some things. You look in reasonable shape anyway. Do you want me to show you a few new steps.' 'Laughter' you talk too fast. you should have shut up after saying the great return line "not as much energy as some things". you were obviously referring to sex. you should have shut up and let her respond to that comment. She would either have scoffed at you OR she would have played along and started flirting with you.

You covered it up though with more talking. You missed a potential shortcut to a sex discussion after beautifully setting it up.

The 8 tried to join the convo, but Blondie physically blocked the 8's access to me: I would have loved her to join in (to disarm), but Blondie deliberately, in my view, blocked her.

first of all it is now too late to disarm anybody. by approaching the target, EVERYONE KNOWS who the target is. forget about obstacles joining in your convo with a target ... FORGET ABOUT IT.

as far as blocking, chicks love to take men from other chicks. I'm sure the younger chick has flirted with and scored men off of the older one several times. I think she was like "not this time, he's mine" and intentionally blocked her out so you could take your best shot at laying her.

I ended up, somehow - don't ask me how - actually getting some kino hand & arm contact, I'll tell you how, she was interested :( eventually trying to pull her towards the dance floor. She didn't want it, so I relented & went back to X & Z (who were chuckling).

shit. you guys amaze me with lateral and BACKWARDS motion :( WHY do you want to DANCE with a chick you are having an INTIMATE DISCUSSION with. Touching her, talking in her ear because the music is loud ... the next step is ISOLATION from her friends and going for the kiss/feel up action ... NOT DANCING! what if she can't dance and didn't want to look like an idiot? what if she didn't want to dance WITH YOU but she was willing to talk to or fuck you? assess your current position vs desired outcome. don't move backwards or sideways ... to the goal, please.

Blondie's on the dancefloor, zoom, so is Dan. Got dancing with her, talked a little more, got K hand arm & eventually got a full K grip. Strange thing here, this woman was incredibly clumsy (by my standards).

see what I mean? NOW you know why she wouldn't dance with you before. You had her where you wanted her and let her out!

Next thing is, she's huffing and puffing & I'm knackering her with the energy of my dancing - which was basically vertical, clothed fucking. In the end, she asks me to stop. 'Am I too much for you?' I ask.

She nods - so I withdraw gracefully.

withdraw? because? from intimate conversation to vertical, clothed fucking to NOTHING? did you figure she danced like that with every guy in the place? I really don't understand. you made some great, bold moves then fumbled repeatedly on the follow-ups.

better luck next time ... good post though.

From zenhead@globalnet.co.uk Sun Jun 20 09:16:39 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!remarQ73!supernews.com!remarQ.com!remarQ69!gxsn.com!not-for-mail From: "Dan Scorpio" zenhead@globalnet.co.uk Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: Quick! Not me though.

Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 20:46:03 +0100 Organization: GXSN Lines: 46 Message-ID: 7kgrt6$iti$3@gxsn.com References: slrn7mni49.1f2.nathan@portn.icommerce-france.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.147.138.240 X-Trace: 929821414 1NNUCNF1G8AF0C393C gxsn.com X-Complaints-To: abuse@gxsn.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:47571 Status: O Is that seduction or harrassment? I mean it's got to be piss easy, two onto one (imagine what they could say if they were both talking at once), but it sounds like a gross invasion to me & they're lucky she didn't call the cops.

Don't know if I could do this (I certainly have the balls - hardly takes any does it) from a 'human rights' point of view (if two guys tried it on me - selling something say - I'd probably punch their fucin lights out).

Could you lot run this two on one shit? Would you?

(Or maybe I'm getting soft)

Afterthought. On the same lines as this, there's the tale in the hypno books of two South Americans who would approach a woman, both talk to her at once & give her a lot of Kino to get her really confused such that she didn't know whether she was on her arse or her elbow. Once they had her confused enough (continually interrupted and fed apprpriate new patterns = hypnotised), the victim would end up on her back - with her legs open.

Another afterthought: anyone ever read Castaneda, where the guy gets 'split' by the two sorcerers talking one down each ear?

Nathan SZILARD wrote in message ...

From my wingman, who was sitting at a cafe with a friend. This good looking, slightly bimbo (in his mouth it's a compliment) is sitting a few table away from them. 2 'raccailles' (bad boys from the suburb) come talk to her. She ignores them. They carry on insisting. She gets up go sit a little farther (but not too far). They follow her and talk to her. She ignores them. They insist, she talks to them for a few minutes. Then she gets up and starts to leave.

Then she has second toughts.

They end up going together, hands in hands, all three of them.

What's happened next is left as an exercise to the reader.

PS: Going to try Tarosan (Mr Smooth's) technique. I will report.

From zenhead@globalnet.co.uk Sun Jun 20 09:20:42 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!remarQ73!supernews.com!remarQ.com!remarQ69!gxsn.com!not-for-mail From: "Dan Scorpio" zenhead@globalnet.co.uk Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: Quick! Not me though.

Could you lot run this two on one shit? Would you?

(Or maybe I'm getting soft) Afterthought. On the same lines as this, there's the tale in the hypno books of two South Americans who would approach a woman, both talk to her at once & give her a lot of Kino to get her really confused such that she didn't know whether she was on her arse or her elbow. Once they had her confused enough (continually interrupted and fed apprpriate new patterns = hypnotised), the victim would end up on her back - with her legs open.

Another afterthought: anyone ever read Castaneda, where the guy gets 'split' by the two sorcerers talking one down each ear?

Nathan SZILARD wrote in message ...

Then she has second toughts.

They end up going together, hands in hands, all three of them.

What's happened next is left as an exercise to the reader.

PS: Going to try Tarosan (Mr Smooth's) technique. I will report.

From jakethomson@pop.dnvr.uswest.net Sun Jun 20 09:27:43 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!206.165.3.11.MISMATCH!nntp.primenet.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!207.225.159.2!news-out.uswest .net!news.uswest .net!not-for-mail Message-ID: 376C562C.5B595D3B@pop.dnvr.uswest.net From: Jake Thomson jakethomson@pop.dnvr.uswest.net Reply-To: jakethomson@uswest.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: Kamakazi hit on HB Russian Girl ... TONIGHT!?

References: 376C191E.A9A492FA@hotmail.com 7kh7oa$a32$3@gxsn.com 376C2665.975F5168@hotmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 108 Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 20:47:09 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.225.102.188 X-Trace: news.uswest.net 929846771 207.225.102.188 (Sat, 19 Jun 1999 21:46:11 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 19 Jun 1999 21:46:11 CDT Organization: U S WEST Interprise Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:47609 Status: O This is probably too late, but there's always next time.

Walk up, smile, say hello, introduce yourself, and before she can ask you "What do you do for a living?", say something like this.

"You know, one of the things I really enjoy about meeting new people is learning about them. Usually one of the first questions people ask each other is, 'What do you do for a living?' And while I'm interested in that, I find I learn a lot more about people by asking them what the challenge is in what they do. Because there are somethings you do that are hard, either because they're inherently difficult, or it's a challenge to get yourself to get the job done at all. And then there are other things that you can just do in your sleep. With me, I find it's the same way. So if I were to ask you, 'What's the challenge in what you do?', what would you say?"

bjorn wrote: Dan, Thanks, but could you "spoon feed me" an example of bold openings beginning with the word "what". My Mensa application was rejected ... hehe.

BTW I am leaving in 3 hours. Thanks again.

Bjorn Dan Scorpio wrote: You are fantasising, Man. Make up two original (and non-supplicating lines, BOTH beginning with the word 'what') and use them. Then report back. Why fucin make up what she's going to say? Unles you're a world class psychic, you just don't know - so forget imagine shooting yourself in the foot.

Get out there, crash and burn (or fuck and spurt), and stop fuckin imagining.

bjorn wrote in message 376C191E.A9A492FA@hotmail.com ...

Guys ... my weekly outing is tonight. I'm a REAL novice SS'er and have been with the NG for about a couple of weeks. Tonight I want to approah HB Russian Girl. This approach will be PURE GUTS and possibly a Kamakazi mission ...

Here is my situation. I go to the same club here in Southern Ontario every week and have seen HB Russian Girl there for the past three weeks. There are many HB's at this club but I really like the look of HB Russian Girl. She is unique because she is the only HB there that has the European dress attire (all the other HB dress in Khaki's, flares or jeans ... ). I discussed her with the wingmen and they think she may be a stripper?? I'm not sure?? Her stats are; 5'9", 120 pounds, 36 C, nice curves but lean body. Very European looking, either Russian, Czech or Polish. I would rate her at about an 8.5. The thing I like about HB Russian Girl is that she always dresses in a nice European way. Last week she wore a very tight skirt, white tight, thin sweater and flat shoes. Her hair was up and pulled tight.

Here is the plan of my approach. I am only 5'7" so this may be a Kamakazi mission. I usually just drink water and will go up to Russian HB when her wing girl goes PP. Her is my anticipated vision of the approach; Me: *walk up smiling with sort of a laugh* I am willing to make a total ASS of myself just to meet you *extending my hand for her to shake and still smiling* BTW my name is XXXX Her: *looking straight ahead rolling her eyes* Me: *my hand falling slowly to my side* Look, I just want to say that I like your style ... it's unique and very European. I'm a Polish Canadian myself and thought I'd just say hi ...

Her: I have a boyfriend ... *Arm on hip* Me: Well I have girlfriends ... listen could you hold my drink for one second so I can tie my shoe *smile while handing her the drink* (I then go on to do the shoe tying routine) Her: *Annoyed by still holds my drink* Me: *While still tying my shoe* I NEG her by saying she really has skinny legs and should go to the gym where I work out.

Her: *Shocked look and sort of annoyed* Me: Just kidding but you do have really white legs *laughing* Her: *Mock laughter* Me: Well, it was NICE meeting you *smile* and will leave you to your men. If you get too bored come over and I'II tell you about the time my grade school teacher caught me masturbating on the school trip to the zoo ... *laugh* (at this time I am walking away and letting her know that I willing to just walk away from her and her approval of me) Ok guys ... rip it to shreds. Don't sugar coat anything. I may try this tonight if HB Russian girl shows up. Thanks for any critisism or witisism.

Bjorn - Two guys are walking down the street.

The first guy walks into a bar, the second one ducks.

Visit my web page: https://www.users.uswest.net/~jakethomson jakethomson@uswest.net From maniac_high@deja.com Sun Jun 20 09:43:16 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!nntp.flash .net!howland.erols .net!outgoing.news.rcn.net.MISMATCH!feed1.news.rcn .net!rcn!newsfeed.gol.com!news0.itjit.ad.jp!news.itjit.ad.jp!202.217.215.5!202.217.215.51 From: maniac_high@deja.com (Maniac High) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Lay Report: Smooth & Maniac shag a chick and her friend ; dirty dancing with samba babe Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 12:57:11 GMT Organization: Intelligent Telecom Inc.

Lines: 401 Message-ID: 376ce4f1.7459661@news.crisscross.com NNTP-Posting-Host: daisy.crisscross.com X-Trace: news.itjit.ad.jp 929883627 16092 202.217.215.5 (20 Jun 1999 13:00:27 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@itjit.ad.jp NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Jun 1999 13:00:27 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent .99e/32.227 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:47658 Status: RO Lay Report! Smooth & Maniac shag a chick and her friend, and dance dirty with Samba babe!

990620 Hi all, It is now Sunday morning in Tokyo, and last night's prize is still sleeping in the bedroom. Tonight we did the new Smooth/Maniac technique I was talking about last week (less, chump, switch to sexual and kino right away)..and it was lethal, as I had suspected it might be. We were awesome, it was a fun night, with *lots* of action with lots of chicks in the bar. We totally kicked.. Oh, before the lay, I got 2 phone numbers from two other chicks (an HB, and a 7), and practically fucked a (different) chick right on the dance floor..

Okay, the details, from the start of the night (and the all the chicks we went through, up until lay time), what I did right, and where I fucked up. Comments welcome as usual.

I was a bit tired yesterday, as this was the 5 th consecutive night now that I have been out. I was meeting Smooth at 9:30 in Roppongi (we were originally going to do street hits in Shibuya, but we switched to Roppongi since it was pouring rain outside, so streethits will be another time). I got there early, so decided to star by going to starbucks and checking the action there first. I got there, and fell right asleep right away though in one of the big comfy living room chairs they got there. Later my phone wakes me up, and Smooth asks me where the fuck I am. I wake up and run to the meeting place.

I meet him, and we talk a little about the new strategy we planned last week, to make sure we are all on the same page. The plan is: -Do a regular Smooth style hit / introduce the other / joke around -get sexual talk going right away -get kino as soon after that -get them to my place -fuck them So we decide to go to a bar. We went to the same place that we picked up Sparkles and HB hotpants the other times, as it seems to be working out for us.

We get there a bit early, around 10:30pm, not many people around.

We immediately run into a chick (HB remember me, 21Y.O.) that we met another time (she remembers us, and our names, and we have no idea who she is).

She is there with two friends, HB long hair who is 21 , and `8' Donuts Chick. Smooth and I are talking to them, and then one 50 yr old foreigner loser (loser not because he is 50, but because he doesnt know how to PU even though he is 50) guy comes into the bar, and she runs down chasing after him. I remember to HB long hair, that she knows everybody here, and HB long hair replies that she is mania about foreigners. I see I reply. I worry, because I see that HB remember me is exhibiting some HB hotpants'ish behavior (buy me this..that/drink).

Smooth and I dont bite (we debriefed after the hotpants/sparkles incidents). She gets the old foreigner to buy her a drink and then she ignores him after that. I am talking to HB long hair, I find she has a BF, and she is totally in love with him. Not sure I can shag her, so I move on to 8 Donuts chick.

She is a 20 yr old student, and works at Dunkin Donuts on the side. I ask her some basic questions (age, job, hobby, challenges in job, basic values stuff, and then sexual stuff (joking about favorite part of body..etc). I find out she likes dancing, so we go to the dance floor and start dancing). I get Kino right away, and that is going well. Soon though, it is midnight, and she has to go as its last train and she has to work in the morning. I get her number, and she goes.

Smooth and I immediately move to the next table.

There's 4 chicks there, and one is taking a picture of the others, we gently take the camera, and gesture to all of them to get him and Smooth takes the picture.

I start talking to two chicks, and smooth starts talking to two others (HB Blue Dress, and Horror Chick). I am having trouble though, because I cannot understand at all the Japanese of what mine are saying, and they also don't look like they want to talk to me. I gesture to Smooth, and then smooth makes a wise move,..he switches with me, and I work his two chicks (I like wingmen who are on to this, not selfish, and realize that obstacle work is a team sport). I start working on Horror chick, who is here for her B-day, and ask her to introduce her friends, which I get. I am talking to Horror chick (she is ugly!) and HB bluedress. Blue dress is interesting, and I seem to be making progress. She is single for a long time, can't find a BF that meets her in her heart. I try to run the best part of your body question, but she doesn't understand my grammar.

No problem, I keep going, talking about values, and other stuff. She asks me if I am the type of guy who chats to all girls and tries to get phone numbers and fuck them, but in a really negative way, not a playful way. I tell her I am looking for the right kind of girl for me. Then we move on to other things about what is important to her..etc. Then I suggest that we should talk another time again, and she gets really frosty, and strange. It was really weird. Smooth and I switch off again, as he has loosened up the other two

chicks for me. He takes his shot and Horror and Blue chick, and gets a lot farther with Blue chick, dancing with her, looks like its going great, but no kissing (he isn't able to get in). He goes back to the table and talk to her more, and then she totally wierds out on him too, and he gives up. He tells be later, that HB Bluedress is seriously fucked up/frigid somehow, very suddently, he'd never seen anything like it so suddenly. I agree, and tell him the same thing happened to me too.

Now we move over to the bar side, and meet HB tits, and HB tiny chick. HB tits has a chest, and is wearing a dress that lets you see all the cleavage. HB tiny is a 35KG tiny little sexy chick, maybe around 35, but still very very good. I do the hit, and run the smooth intro. They are always looking away from the people (facing the bar), but anyways, we get in. I am working on HB tits, and Smooth is working HB tiny. They are friendly, but dont seem interested somehow. But I am getting looks from HB tiny, so we switch off. I ask HB tiny to tell me about her friend, and why she likes her. HB tiny tells me she hangs out with HB Tits because she is so beatiful. I say oh really, you think so, and take HB Tinys hand, and run it over HB Tits ass. HB tits looks indifferent, but HB tiny is clearly enjoying it and an evil grin comes to her face. I ask then which is usually on top, HB tiny, or HB tits. HB tiny says she's on the bottom. It was funny. HB tits at this point starts telling me that she is not a lesbian, then tunes out of the conversation. This is out of Smooths operating range, and he is looking, not really sure how to handle this. Smooth has a certain program with how to work on chicks, and this ain't a part of it it seems , he is not sure what I am trying to do. (the goal here, was to get some 3p or 4p action (3p, Japanese speak for menage a trois). I start commenting on HB tiny, and how she can handle that, and start touching her ass, and hair and stuff. She reacts okay. The whole time though, they only stay at the bar, facing away from other customers (they attend to us)..[turns out they stay there the *entire* night, facing away from everyone, I think we were the only guys who hit on them with any measure of success)]. HB tits leaves to go get a drink, and I am still working on HB tiny. Smooth leaves to go find the next chicks we'll hit on since he is not sure what to do here anyways. My Japanese falls apart for hard stuff, so I move on when HB tits gets back, as I am unable to keep HB tits engaged at all, she is turning a little frigid. HB Tiny and me start making funny getures to each other, and we are having fun. HB tiny is really interesting though, I should have gotten her number.

Now I go to the toilet, and I meet Aussie guy in there. Turns out he's a player too, who can also speak Japanese. I worked a bit with him later that night, but he is not really a team player, ..though I admit we didn't debrief. I got his number, and we will debrief, and try hitting one night and see how we do..

Then, I meet Mr. Lager just by chance, he is here too. It looks like he is having another bad day, being a wall flower. Not good, because I know he is much more capable than this based on what I have seen on previous occasions. I decided I will have a talk with him this week, and see what is bugging him, as this looks serious..

I hook up with Smooth again, who is striking out (it is really crowded at this point, very hard to even move around). We decide to go upstairs, and we see two HB's sitting down, facing the crowd. Smooth makes the hit this time. They ignore us totally like we weren't there. No problem, we just get up and hit the next two chicks right in front of us, in front of those two frigid chick's faces. These chicks are HB Sweet and `8' Samba babe. I notice that Samba babe has a tatoo on her (exposed) belly, and ask her about it. Then I realize I have seen her before, she was a performer at a show I saw, (I remember the tattoo), and she says yes, that was her. Good music comes on, and I ask her to dance.

We go down, she is very very good, and a very passionate dancer. I am not bad too, and we kick ass on the floor, and get very Kino right away. We made the film "dirty dancing" look like a G rated kids show. A bunch of people around us, stop dancing, just to watch us. I am all over her, and she is all over me, and we are basically fucking each other while still in our clothes on the dance floor, it was cool.

Her friend was with Smooth (she can't dance at all), and was watching us, and each time Samba babe just told her, its "samba" (actually its not, but it was a good excuse). Smooth is making progress with his chick and we decide that we will try to take them home with us.

We get them off the dance floor, and smooth makes the pitch to his chick, and convinces her. *But*, oh no!, my Samba babe ran into some old friends, and is busy chatting with them. We wait a couple minutes, then decide to come back later when she is done.

Right then, we meet two HB chicks who just got to the bar by the lockers, and I look at Smooth, and he approves the looks, so I go in and make the hit. One chick is frigid, the other (HB necklace) is looking for action, it is obvious right away. Smooth comes in, and works on HB necklace, and I work on frigid obstacle. We do the regular hit pattern as above, and get to the dance floor. I am keeping obstacle busy as long as I can, until Smooth manages to tongue down HB necklace. At this point HB frigid decides to leave, I gesture to Smooth, and I leave too, leaving the two on the floor to finish the tonguefest.

Now I am on my own, and something strange happens, I feel jealous somehow, because Smooth is well.so smooth, and I was doing okay, but not being as natural as he was (some part to experience, some part to language barriers which I face and he doesnt). But this feeling was something I didn't like.

I decide this is a bad thing, because you always got to support your wing, like he supports you, so I go upstairs, to chill out, and get my shit together. I decide to not get discouraged, and that now is a good time to practice hitting unassisted by smooth. I get myself together, and head back down, to hit some more on my own. I run into Lager, who is looking a bit bummed out, and is being a wall flower. He gives me some excuse about how he looks for eye contact and interest first before making the hit, or it never works out (this is serious, I really got to talk to him), and that no one is giving me eye contact. He looks dark and serious, with no smile..not good.

Anyways, I don't let it discourage me like the other day, and I see a cute chick dancing right in front of me(HB Black Flower Dress) with her friend sort of watching. I do an NYC stand in front of her, get attention and then I get in with her, she is real friendly. We get a bit Kino, and talk at the same time. It is okay. I asked her about if she has a BF and all that, and what is important (honesty). I tell her where I am from and she says her last BF was from the same place, and was a liar. I tell her that sometimes Japanese girls aren't always honest either, but everyone is not the same, then change the subject to her values, job, and stuff like that. Talking is okay, then her obstacle friend (who I cannot get to dance with us), drags her away.

I move on to the dance floor, and run into Mr.

Aussie. He is doing okay with Ms. Half top HB. I am looking for a chick to hit on, and then HB Black Flower dress wanders by, and tells me to stay "right there, because she wants to talk to her friends nearby first, and then talk to me", and then she leaves.

Fuck that I say, she can come find me again if she won't talk to me right now, and I continue hitting.

The chick who Mr. Aussie is hitting has a friend who shows up, (HB tall jeans), so I engage her.since she was dancing by herself, so I handle her, and we get a little Kino, and talk a bit like I did with HB Black Flower dress. This is going okay, we are getting into it in a few minutes. Then, HB Aussie, does a bad thing. He gets blown out by HB half top, and then he starts hitting on *my chick!*. Yelch!

Eventually, he clues into my rotten demeanor (fuck, Smooth would never do this to me!) and he bugs out after asking me if I like her ("yes! In case it wasn't obvious!"). I continue now working on HB tall jeans now that Aussie is gone. Then some other friends of hers show up, and drag her away. I hang on to her, and get her number before she disappears in the crowd though with the others.

Now I run into Smooth and HB necklace, who have come back to the dance floor. Her friend HB frigid is nowhere to be found. Then, all of the suddent, HB neckace run into one of her friends by surprise, Ms.

T-back (an 8) [it turns out she was wearing a T-back under her jeans when I took her home and shagged her]. Ms. T-back gets dancing with us, and I get Kino right away with her. She looks like an easy chick, accepting where I touch her with no resistance whatsoever. I get more bold, go for the neck, ass, like I did with samba babe, going well. I pull her in closer to me, no resistance at all, I look into her eyes, contact stays, and I kiss her and start tonguing her, while she rides my leg on the dance floor. I start putting my hands all over her, and I keep tonguing her, going for her througt, neck, and all over, and she is getting really hot. We do this for about 10 minutes, and I ask her if she likes me. She says "yes, do you like me", I say "yes", and I say "lets go". I gesture to smooth, and he brings his chick (her friend), who he was tonguing too. We get to the door, and the chicks go to the bathroom, we wait, get them, and take them back to my place in Smooth's car. My chick can speak really easy Japanese, and is a talker..I ask her questions and let her talk, and I tongue her and feel her up on the way back, like I did with Ms. Kinky in the cab.

We get to my place, and Smooth drops us off, and takes his chick back to bar to pick up something she forgot, and then back to his place (4p opportunity missed there ;-) ). I tongue my chick more in the living room, and go for her tits, and then tell her lets go upstairs. We get there, and the serious fucking starts right away, no resistance at all whatsoever.

This chick is into casual sex (fortunately, Maniac uses good condoms, and is careful) and we fuck all night and again in the morning. She is very good with her mouth too (as I figured from the tonguing on the dance floor), and a good fuck.

The next morning, we shower, fuck some more, and then we get dressed she says thank you, I get her picture (website still not setup yet, sorry) gives me her email address, and says she had a wonderful time with me, and lots of pleasure. We go to the train station, and on our separate ways, she tells me thank you again for everything and a wonderful evening.

That was cool, good sex, casual for fun (even for her), and no shit about do you love me, wanting my phone number, a relationship and whatever.just fun, and easy sex, and she thought that way too, cool. She gave me her email, so I can write her I guess if I want another fuck.

Funny thing is too, until I got her email, I couldn't remember her name at all (if she even told me). I had no idea the name of the chick I was fucking even. I never fucked a chick before in my house, who I didn't even know her name.first time for everything I guess.

So there you go, seems the new maniac/smooth approach basically works, though we need to practice on the details, and I got to get better at talking (my Kino is getting better though), and story telling and gesturing.. No problem.there's next week. Also, the smooth approach does mean that 3p / 4p action may be possible as well, because of the way we do the introductions. We will research this further, and report, will need some mods to the approach to leave this possibility open. Actually, this is a fairly common theme in those nanpa videos I was talking about, and I know for a fact, that lots of Japanese chicks are into 3p/4p action..no moral hangups whatsoever.

Finally, a point to make. the last new chick I laid was Ms. Kinky, a few weeks ago, and I had to maybe hit on several hundred chicks before I got the next lay yesterday. Numbers here is important guys, especially until your skills get better. 100s' of chicks.

If I hit only 4 chicks a week, it would be a few years between lays! (for all you beginners out there!).

Also I think I could have laid HB Tiny too, and Ms.

Samba, but here my skills let me down a bit.more practice needed before I can go for those situations better. I got Ms. Tall jeans number, I might try for her for some midweek excitement, as well as HB Spacey from Friday.

So there you go.

Comments as usual welcome!

Maniac From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Sun Jun 20 20:34:42 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: Mystery's insight Lines: 70 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 20 Jun 1999 20:23:30 GMT References: 7kj4b0$k2b$1@nnrp1.deja.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990620162330.07142.00002111@ng-bd1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:47698 Status: O This whole post is a pretty rare thing to see on A.S.F ... or at least as far as I can tell. I wrote something similar many many months ago and was flamed pretty good for it. In any event, I agree with you wholeheartedly. Totally.

thanks IX :) I will search your posting history on deja because I would like to read your series. if you can remember, please post the thread name in case I can't find it.

To my way of thinking, seduction is attracting women who are classy, decent, and who are waiting for the right man to make their move. It's not sticking your dick into some drunk slut who crawled out of the gutter for a night on the town. I don't know why people try to pass that off as being "seduction".

precisely. there is a complete difference between seducing a chick and finding one that wants to get fucked, as you stated in your post. for instance, look at the latest Maniac High post. that was a really good, persistant night of sarging! when did he and smooth get on though? when they FINALLY landed on tow chicks that WANTED TO GET FUCKED BEFORE THEY MET MANIAC AND SMOOTH! that's all there is to it. they hung in there through some good wins and many defeats, and finally hit paydirt. I will admit that Maniac used his K skills and dancing and generally knowing how to get a girl wet and horny to "seduce"

her. but her mind was already made up when she got there that any guy that she liked that got her that way could fuck her that night. not to take ANY credit from Maniac, since he got what he went out to get and got more numbers to boot, but that was not a seduction IMO, that was good sarging.

I support Mystery 100% because he clearly states what he wants and he gets it. I think that's highly admirable. But I'm not going to jump in and say he's the master at seduction, because I don't think he is. Yes, kissing a girl 10 minutes after you meet her is more than most guys can do, but is it really a demonstration of TRUE seduction skills? Or is it just talking to every girl you can until you find one who's willing to do that? I'm not sure.

same situation. I have learned invaluable information in sarging from Maniac's tactics. I agree that what he does is sarging, not seduction. even in his latest post about toronto, he did not "seduce" the warpig. she was desperate and he knew how to get her to suck his dick and bend over for him. he used his skills to get what he went out that night to get, but IMO that was NOT a seduction either.

For me, seduction implies more than just a connection between two people who want to fuck. It's not getting a girl all wet because you told her a witty joke. It's getting into her head and making her see you as the ideal man, and connecting to her character qualities, getting her to connect to your dreams and goals.

Then channeling all that into one big erotic point of light aimed at yourself.

I agree again. I am into the mind-bending applications of SS. I want to take women that are not thinking about having sex at all and make them WANT to fuck!

I want to do the work necessary to land chicks that I really like. I have had access to sluts my entire life. the sex is fun, but getting them is boring, routine. I could do all of that BEFORE SS. I think seduction is taking a situation where you have the right woman and the wrong mental state, and creating the right mental state and desire in her to be with you.

My goal is to get sex from girls who won't give it up for just any guy.

precisely :) ) It's the basic difference between FINDING a girl who ALREADY WANTS TO FUCK and GETTING A GIRL TO WANT TO FUCK. I prefer the second.

-IX From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Sun Jun 20 20:48:55 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal11.airnews .net!uunet!dfw.uu .net!lax.uu .net!ffx.uu .net!newsfeed2.us.ibm .net!ibm .net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: Help: My GF doesnt do blowjobs!

Lines: 6 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 20 Jun 1999 19:57:12 GMT References: 17460-376D31A0-41@newsd-133.iap.bryant.webtv.net Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990620155712.07142.00002098@ng-bd1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:47695 Status: O I knew a guy once and overheard him telling another guy about a girl friend of his who would not blow him. When she refused he simply shrugged his sholders and told her not to worry about it. He would find a woman on the side to give him blow jobs. She blew him immediately.

good point. use it or lose it!

From SixthSense@xtra.co.nz Mon Jun 21 03:54:12 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.wli .net!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!lsanca1-snf1!news.gtei .net!news.netgate.net.nz!news.xtra.co.nz!not-for-mail From: "Sixth Sense" SixthSense@xtra.co.nz Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Transformation from A.F.C. Part 5 Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 07:18:31 +1200 Organization: Customer of Telecom Internet Services Lines: 157 Message-ID: 7kjfiu$3tdhm$6@titan.xtra.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Host: 210-55-151-226.dialup.xtra.co.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: titan.xtra.co.nz 929907102 4109878 210.55.151.226 (20 Jun 1999 19:31:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@xtra.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Jun 1999 19:31:42 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:47690 Status: O Friday 18th: Outing report After an invitation from Mystery to join the guys in Toronto for Friday night (thanks for the offer, but Toronto is just a tad too far away from New Zealand. ? ) I decided that I was going into town.

My search for people to go with failed - I can't seem to find anyone interested in the clubbing scene at the moment. Probably just as well anyway as many of the guys I associate with don't have a hugely high self-esteem.

I drive into town, and move into Club #1.

Getting inside I grab a drink and wander through the crowd practicing my ability to hold eye contact a bit and checking out what the women are like.

Lots of HBs everywhere. Real quality. If you guys are having trouble with the HB ratios, come visit me in New Zealand. If you have a UK or American/Canadian accent you'll be swamped.

Anyway, I squeezed myself into a space at a table looking out on the dance floor, completely ignoring the 6 & 7 next to me which again worked well - they were annoyed that I didn't even glance in their direction and kept looking until I turned and gave them a smile. I then ignored them again.

Hehe.

I distinctly remember saying to myself that this was the last week I would allow myself to sit back and watch passively. Next week is the week I'm going to take some action and start approaching some women or getting on the dance floor (the thought of which still makes me feel sick). The reason I mention what I was thinking is because I believe this set me up for an amazing night.

I made the decision there that I was not going to pay any particular interest to any women that night. My goal was just to watch and observe.

Appreciate the attractive women objectively. Watch the guys with no skills burn out. Watch the guys with great PU skills get the kill. Learning was the objective and because of that I let go of much of my fear. I wasn't going to approach anyone so found myself enjoying the evening, the music and having a ball of a time watching the interactions between people.

So I'm watching dance floor and along comes an 8 and a 10 (as a reference, I 'd rate Mystery's Urkrane girl an 8.5). The 10 would be about 21 or 22 and a gorgeous dancer. She caught me looking and I instantly glanced away (instinctive fear response). I looked again and this time held my gaze. She keeps looking and I smile back. Some sleaze comes up and tries to get them to dance. He's full on - in their faces, touching their arms, big gestures.

They close him off and he bugs out quickly. The 10 catches me shaking my head and rolling my eyes at the guys attempt and beams at me. (Great suggestion whoever posted that recently). Bang, she's now indicating more interest in me. And because I'd already decided that I was just going to observe I didn't feel much of my normal fear and my body language didn't put her off.

She keeps looking my way, but eventually gives up and leaves with her friend. 5 minutes later I decide that I should have approached and decide to move on too. Here in Christchurch the clubs are all centrally located so the chances are 50/50 of bumping into someone again.

I cross the road to Club #2. Total meat market. The quality of both the men and women are low. I'd rank the average woman as a 5. I watch the dance floor and check out the few 8s and 9s around, again just having fun observing. Suddenly I'm pulled onto the dance floor by some huge beast in leather who makes me dance with her and who tries to put her arms around me.

She senses my awkwardness (in part because she was not attractive and also my general discomfort toward dancing) and gets a bit embarrassed. But I humor her anyway and dance for the one song (which for some reason was a much, much longer version than I'd ever heard before :-) and then escaped by saying I had to meet a friend elsewhere.

On the way to Club #3 I mused over the experience and realised that my attitude of observation rather than 'need to meet someone' was definitely getting different results from normal. Even if the woman in Club #2 was a low score (don't ask), that incident and the general interest I was picking up from women in Club #1 was a great improvement. Ah, but the best was yet to come.

At Club #3 I jumped in the queue just ahead of five girls, all about 7 or 8s and accidently stumbled on a good way to start a conversation (which worked again on the following night). Once again it's based on the ignore principal. I never looked back at them but continued to smile and observe what was going on around me.

Now I assume it's the same around the globe - women in queues here like to babble at each other. Complain about the cold, comment on the cute and not so cute guys, giggle all the time etc. Well, I was listening in and was laughing to myself about what they were saying and one of them spots it and taps me gently on the arm while mildly telling me off for being nosey.

Instantly I'm in the conversation - "But it was funny" I protested. Moments later I'd introduced myself and started talking to them and ended up concentrating on the 8 in the group.

She was very cute and friendly and we talked about her work for about 5 minutes before we got in the door at which point she asked me to come have a drink with her if I couldn't find my (non-existent) friend. Awesome. I can't recall being invited back for a drink before like that - again conversation was the key - I'd started creating connection and rapport and hence interest on her part. Unfortunately, by the time I got back to where she was sitting she was long gone.

An observation I noted: because my self-esteem is still not high I found I was partially focused on me, which meant I couldn't remember all the names of the girls in the group. In fact I had great trouble remembering the name of the 8 I was talking to (fortunately remembered in time). So, I need to practice memorising names and faces.

I go to the bathroom and as I come out there's a 7.5 (somewhat drunk, I admit) talking to her friend. I smile at her as I pass and she grabs me, and pulls me in for a quick kiss on the lips. She pulls away and looks at me and I can see her weighing me up and then delivers a full tonsil pounding tongue pash. I happily returned the favor, finished, squeezed her butt before letting go, thanked her and and moved on.

Observation: because I was caught off guard by this I found myself walking away before my brain had caught up. I guess in retrospect I could have stayed and seen what developed - she was certainly fairly attractive, but I was in shock and hadn't thought that far. And as someone pointed out in the newsgroup today, if a woman is this easy, she's probably this easy with just about anyone.

I'm glad I didn't stay; as I'm walking back from the toilet I catch a flash of white and turn to find myself looking at the 10 from Club #1. She's looking right back. I panic and keep walking, then stop and turn to look again and she's still staring right back - body language screaming "come talk to me!!". I panic and continue walking away (Aaaargh!) and then just as I make up my mind to go back and approach her. .another hand grabs me and suddenly I find myself staring into the eyes of a gorgeous 9 brunette with an awesome body - great tight top under a black jacket thing. She says "let's go - come with me" to which my shocked brain cleverly answered with "So you want me to come with you?". Really clever witty response, eh? Still the accidental suggestion in the wording probably didn't hurt. As she's pulling me to the dance floor I find out that she has seen me somewhere and is a friend of a friend of my brother's or something.

Suddenly we're dancing and she's so close that we might as well have been doing it on the dance floor. Full body press! I enjoyed every darn minute!

She catches me looking at her top, stops dancing, looks suggestively her own chest and back at me as if to say, "do you like what you see?". She then proceeds to take her black jackety thing off and tie it around her waist so I can get the full view. My poor brain was in overload - this sort of stuff does not happen to an Average Friendly Chump like me!

We carry on dancing - I'm a bit awkward (fear of dancing again) and I'm in overwhelm so don't have a clue what to say, apart from the occasional strangled closed questions. After a few more minutes she smiles at me and excuses herself to go to the bathroom. I wander out to the bar to get some water and lost her. I'm not sure whether she split (about 50/50 I'd guess), or whether we just missed each other. I was just glad to have had the experience.

The only negative was that when she pulled me onto the dance floor it was right next to the 10 who got suitably pissed off and left. Darn. I ended the night fairly shortly after that at 4am after sifting the other nearby nightclubs to see if I could find the 10 again. Nope. :-( I arrived home on such a high that I barely slept.

From SixthSense@xtra.co.nz Mon Jun 21 03:58:14 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!nntp.flash .net!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!lsanca1-snf1!news.gtei .net!news.netgate.net.nz!news.xtra.co.nz!not-for-mail From: "Sixth Sense" SixthSense@xtra.co.nz Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Transformation from A.F.C. Part 7 Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 18:37:59 +1200 Organization: Customer of Telecom Internet Services Lines: 152 Message-ID: 7kkmsi$3u0tc$3@titan.xtra.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Host: 210-55-148-80.dialup.xtra.co.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: titan.xtra.co.nz 929947346 4129708 210.55.148.80 (21 Jun 1999 06:42:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@xtra.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Jun 1999 06:42:26 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:47750 Status: O Part 7 Thanks for the positive feedback on previous posts so far.

As an aside from my outing reports I thought I'd describe the interesting phone call I had last week.

A week ago today I called a business in Wellington (approx 600km away) and when the receptionist answered I commented on what an amazing telephone voice she has and said I'd have to sneak into her reception to see what she looks like. Here's how the conversation went from there: Her: How will I know who you are?

Me: You won't. But I'll be the one skulking around the reception area pretending to do things.

Her: laughs But how will you know who I am?

Me: I'll know as soon as you answer the phone won't I!

Her: laughs So what do you look like?

Me: What do you think I look like?

Her: laughs That's not fair - I asked first.

Me: I know. What do you think I look like?

Her: Well, by the sound of your voice I'd say aged between 27-35. I'm guessing dark hair, 5'7'', not overweight and no hair on your chest.

I was stunned for a few seconds because she'd just described me perfectly Me: Well, if you take my age at 27 you're right on every count! Isn't that weird!

Her: Really? Wow. What do you think I look like?

Meanwhile the boys in the office are listening in and start to make shovelling motions to indicate the massive hole I'm about to dig for myself Me: Well, I assume that you have no hair on your chest either?

Her: laughs No!!

Me: And I'd say by the way you talk that you don't fit into the true stereotypical blonde bracket, right?

Her: laughs again No! So what colour do you think my hair is?

Me: Blondish?

Her: No! laughing in mock offence Me: Do you dye your hair?

Silence for a second from her end, the boys in my office have increased the dig speed and I suddenly realise that asking a woman if she dyes her hair is not the best idea in the world. Fortunately in this case it worked much like a neg hit - she jumped to defend herself Her: Well. yes, I do. But it's so close to my natural colour that barely anyone would notice!

Me: Dark brown / black then?

Her: Yes Me: Same as me then.

Her: So how old am I?

Me: Well, from the sound of your voice I'd say 20.

Always tell a woman she's 20 - my female friend tells me that all women below 20 want to look 20, and anyone older also wants to look 20.

Her: No! I'm older than that!

Me: I know, I just wanted to say something nice before I get it wrong and you beat me up. I'd say 25.

Her: Exactly right!

From here I started asking questions about her and her phone manner, which Status: O prompted her to start talking about her family life, interests and even past deaths in her family, how she enjoys the job etc.

She was sharing and caught up in the conversation hook, line and sinker. I could tell that she couldn't believe she was telling a stranger this much (she confirmed this later).

At the end of the call I suggested that when I came to Wellington next we could have lunch and she heartily agreed and then said she had to go because she'd been ignoring the incoming calls! She then transferred me through to the person I'd called for.

Here's the kicker. The next morning she calls me back! She'd hunted down the person I'd spoken to, asked who I was and where I was from and the phone number.

She called to thank me for the conversation and said she couldn't believe how she was able to talk to me like that and wanted to thank me for listening so carefully. She told me she'd been telling her friends about it the night before and couldn't stop thinking about it. Again she agreed to have lunch when I was up there next and asked for my email address.

Since then she's sent me at least one email a day and I was dropping some subtle patterns into the text to test responses: i.e.: You know, I can't believe how well we talk together. I feel like I've know you for ages, not just for a couple of phone calls. It's like sometimes when you meet someone and just feel connected, like you've known them for longer?

Does that make sense to you?

And the response? Wow. She's interested! When I said I was travelling out of the country in September she called me on the phone after receiving the email and said "You're not moving overseas are you?". I explained that it was just a seminar and she was immensely relieved and even added a P.S. at the bottom of her next email that said how glad she was that I wasn't moving overseas.

By the end of the week she was making toll calls to me to talk to me after work! Not bad after 3 phone calls and 5 emails since last Monday.

I haven't spoken to her over the weekend, so it'll be interesting to see how this week goes. I'm still trying to determine whether she's just very interested or if she is maybe a little infatuated with me. It's interesting to see it from this perspective - it's quite unnerving for me to think that she feels that way about me after just a few phone calls. I can see why women get turned off by needy guys so easily.

Some of my observations about it, mixed in with thoughts from Female friend S.

Either I've pushed just the right buttons BIG TIME, or she's infatuated with me. Either way I'm guessing it's partially because when she guessed what I looked like she was enjoying the conversation with me and so described the image of her perfect man. Strangely enough it just happened to match me entirely. No wonder she's interested, eh?

Friend S also tells me that deep down most women believe in destiny - that at some point, Mr Right in shining armor will come into their lives and sweep them off their feet. S suggests that I've trigged these feelings in this girl and she's now asking herself if I could be the one.

I had a great time during the phone conversation and one of the most important factors I feel (and backed up by Ross's notes) is that I made her laugh and kept her laughing all the way. I also threw in some unexpected, slightly naughty lines like: "I bet you don't have hair on your chest either", which probably suggested I was thinking about her naked. I hadn't actually realised that at the time - I was just repeating back the world play she'd used on me.

I also accidentally uncovered some of her values relating to work and family etc and discussed those with her. For example, I led her to draw the conclusion that maybe the reason she had developed such high telephone skills was because of a past traumatic experience (her parents divorce) where she decided that she would find a way to make everyone like her from then on. That resulted in time in her awesome phone manner. Of course this blew her away - you don't have conversations like this with guys let alone guys 15 minutes after you've called someone for the first time. But then I'm particularly interested in the way past experiences can shape our lives anyway, so it was something I wanted to talk about.

I'm suddenly realising how important the whole values thing is in creating rapport with someone, and how easy it can be to draw them out.

I'm looking forward to my next Wellington trip to see what happens when we meet.

*** PLEASE NOTE: These articles are my opinions, experiences and observations as I learn more about S.S. and rapport building techniques and their application. I don't claim to be an expert of any sort. Constructive criticism / feedback welcome.

Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 04:01:58 -0400

Subject: ss Status: RO Now I assume it?s the same around the globe ? women in queues here like to babble at each other. Complain about the cold, comment on the cute and not so cute guys, giggle all the time etc. Well, I was listening in and was laughing to myself about what they were saying and one of them spots it and taps me gently on the arm while mildly telling me off for being nosey.

Instantly I?m in the conversation ? ?But it was funny? I protested. Moments later I?d introduced myself and started talking to them and ended up concentrating on the 8 in the group.

I go to the bathroom and as I come out there?s a 7.5 (somewhat drunk, I admit) talking to her friend. I smile at her as I pass and she grabs me, and pulls me in for a quick kiss on the lips. She pulls away and looks at me and I can see her weighing me up and then delivers a full tonsil pounding tongue pash. I happily returned the favor, finished, squeezed her butt before letting go, thanked her and and moved on.

From neuralnet@home.com Mon Jun 21 08:30:20 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!dallas-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei .net!nntp.abs .net!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news.rdc1.mi.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: 376E348E.CDF8730A@home.com From: David Shade neuralnet@home.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Toronto Wingmen Report Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 83 Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 12:51:10 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.2.75.114 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news.rdc1.mi.home.com 929969470 24.2.75.114 (Mon, 21 Jun 1999 05:51:10 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 05:51:10 PDT Organization: @Home Network Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:47773 Status: O Friday night I met up with Mystery, his friend Tal, and his cousin, as well as Hawker and his friend John. We talk shop for a while and then get busy. Mystery runs into an old girlfriend of his. What a doll.

Mystery and Tal talk to a number of women. Hawker and John and I go menace some others. Mystery and I do his camera gig with a couple chicks. Mystery approaches this one cutie who is with some big guy.

She soon forgets about the guy as Mystery shows her the disappearing pen trick and some other things like his ability to know what she wrote on a peace of paper. Hawker and John leave to check out a different place.

Mystery, Tal, his cousin, and I leave to go to a sports bar. We chat with a few. Whenever Mystery demonstrates his magic, a small crown will gather, or he will simply gather up some people and then start demonstrating. After they are all impressed he moves on the hot chick.

As it is getting late, the pickings are getting thin. I see this slender brunette in a group of people and go start chatting her up.

Turns out she is with 3 girl friends who unfortunately are not as slender. The guys who are trying to make the moves on the group start dropping off as I talk to the chicks. I motion Mystery over. He comes in and entertains them with his magic. They love it. I ask Mystery if he wants to continue with these or just go out to breakfast. He wants to continue, so we keep working them. Then he demonstrates another trick for the slender chick. She is amazed and asks him how he did it.

He tells her to back up into between his legs and he asks her if she can keep a secret. She says Yes. He whispers into her ear: "I can too."

She jumps out and exclaims: "You're cruel!" All the chicks ask: "What did he say?" Then he does a trick for one of the other chicks where she has to hold his hand. She says: "You have big hands." He says: "Oooh, let's not continue on that line of thinking!" Mystery takes the chicks one at a time to the corner and levitates a bottle for them. They love him. The bar is closing and everybody spills out into the parking garage. Mystery is talking to Tal and his cousin at their car. I get the chicks to take us home with them. I tell some guys who are still trying to hit on two of the chicks to get lost. I motion Mystery over and we get into the chick's van. On the way there, Mystery and the slender chick are in the back seat making out. At the chicks house, the two drunk blondes pass out. Mystery and I talk with the two brunettes for a while and then Mystery goes for a dip in the Jacuzzi. The two brunettes go to bed. Mystery goes to the slender brunette's room to get a T shirt and never returns. I ride the sofa. hehe Saturday, Mystery and I go out to lunch. We talk shop for hours. We cover every topic on the art of pick up. Mystery has dedicated every aspect of his life to only one thing. Getting chicks. He is very intelligent and driven. It is interesting to hear in person the things I had enjoyed reading about in the ng, like the Elvis script and the pictures opener and many many more that he has not yet written up. He may appear very cocky in the ng, but in person he is a very pleasant sociable person. I discuss what I had learned from Ross' course, and how it has changed how I go about it all. We compare and contrast various strategies. He is very very talkative and can invent a story on the spot.. He insists he is not a natural, but instead, has worked on making himself talkative. His goal is to have the best of the best. I tell him he needs to write a book. Let's hope he does. I am confident that some day we will see him on Sunday evening national television.

Saturday evening I go to the Harbor Front and have dinner with Hypnotist, George, and Leon. It is great meeting people whose posts I had read. I was anxious to hear Hypnotist tell the story about the hot babe he won away from the biker. I know nothing about hypnotism, so Hypnotist demonstrates a little hypnotic suggestion for me (the light hand, heavy hand) and it was amazing. We all talked shop for a long time. It was great to meet such interesting and intelligent people. I have a lot in common with George. He and I had spoken on the phone earlier at length while arranging the dinner. Leon and I get along great. He has a very interesting background. We all have fun with the waitress and the cute hostesses. Then we spend the night cruising all the local bars. In front of one bar, Hypnotist runs into a chick he knows. She has a really big enthusiastic hug for him. She is totally hot, a 10. You know, tiny waist, tight muscular ass, plentiful perkies. He arranges a meeting for tomorrow and we continue. The night club scene is especially dead tonight. We find out later that there was another event going on in Toronto that we did not know about. I only talk to a couple chicks. While enjoying a beer, Hypnotist and George discuss confidence strategies and Leon and I share war stories.

I only had 5 hours sleep all weekend, but it was great meeting these guys. Thanks guys for the hospitality.

David Shade From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Mon Jun 21 19:22:54 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!howland.erols .net!portc02.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: Lay Report: Smooth & Maniac shag a chick and her friend ; dirty dancing with samba babe Lines: 428 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 21 Jun 1999 23:24:54 GMT References: 376ce4f1.7459661@news.crisscross.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990621192454.07640.00002489@ng-ck1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:47806 Status: O Lay Report! Smooth & Maniac shag a chick and her friend, and dance dirty with Samba babe!

Great post Maniac :) also, great work. this is what I was complaining about initially when you were just collecting numbers FOR NOTHING! You could have done work like this back then too. Great progress :) I meet him, and we talk a little about the new strategy we planned last week, to make sure we are all on the same page. The plan is:

-Do a regular Smooth style hit / introduce the other / joke around -get sexual talk going right away -get kino as soon after that -get them to my place -fuck them very basic. very effective. very good :) I worry, because I see that HB remember me is exhibiting some HB hotpants'ish behavior (buy me this..that/drink).

Smooth and I dont bite (we debriefed after the hotpants/sparkles incidents).

good.

She gets the old foreigner to buy her a drink and then she ignores him after that.

see what good it would have done you to buy her ANYTHING? you would have gotten ignored for your trouble AND money :) I am talking to HB long hair, I find she has a BF, and she is totally in love with him. Not sure I can shag her, so I move on to 8 Donuts chick.

hahaha see what happened there? you found out AHEAD OF TIME what game you needed to play with her. You decided the game was not worth it to win or perhaps a no-win to begin with and bailed. what you WOULD have done is talked to this chick for an hour and tried to impress her while she DIDN'T tell you she was attached so you could buy her drinks and dinners and bus rides, then you would have gone for the USELESS number then she would have mentioned the BF

then you would have tried a "BF destroyer" HAHAHAHAHAHA. It took me so long to type that shit, I KNOW it would have wasted so much time, energy, money and opportunity for you that you would have been disgusted! :) She is a 20 yr old student, and works at Dunkin Donuts on the side. I ask her some basic questions (age, job, hobby, challenges in job, basic values stuff, and then sexual stuff (joking about favorite part of body..etc).

I really like that favorite part of the body stuff :) I find out she likes dancing, so we go to the dance floor and start dancing). I get Kino right away, and that is going well. Soon though, it is midnight, and she has to go as its last train and she has to work in the morning. I get her number, and she goes.

nice.

Chick). I am having trouble though, because I cannot understand at all the Japanese of what mine are saying, and they also don't look like they want to talk to me. I gesture to Smooth, and then smooth makes a wise move,..he switches with me, and I work his two chicks (I like wingmen who are on to this, not selfish, and realize that obstacle work is a team sport).

exactly. my wings know that I can take the fall for ANYTHING! if they need to come off crude, they will say that I said it. I am so good at dealing with spontaneous situations that I can play off of an immediately different position and make it look convincing :) When my wing is doing good work, I fade back and sometimes MUTE until I am needed in the convo. when I am on, my wings can leave to get more chicks or chime in or whatever. we know what the desired outcome is and are not afraid to switch chicks in mid-conversation to get them.

sometimes my wing is the only one they are interested in. we switch off then so he can gas both chicks up, then try to extract to his house for drinks n sex.

She asks me if I am the type of guy who chats to all girls and tries to get phone numbers and fuck them, but in a really negative way, not a playful way. I tell her I am looking for the right kind of girl for me.

potential ERROR what values did you elicit from her that told you that THAT was the correct answer to her question? I'm sure you left out MOST of the actual details of the conversation or this post would have been a mini-series :) however, I doubt that you knew the right answer to this question before she asked it. these things are crucial. you need to find out AS MUCH AS YOU CAN about a chick BEFORE she asks you any questions besides the basics like your name. remember, you are not trying to tell her the truth ... you are telling her what she needs to hear in order to fuck you! you won't know what to tell her until you ask her what to tell her ... does that make sense?

negative sounding or not, that chick was seeing WHY you were talking to them.

You assumed IMO that she was NOT looking for a player and quick, meaningless, no-strings-attached sex. If you were WRONG, she may have said "I don't want this guy latching on to me" and shut down. Next time deflect the question with a laugh and "why do you ask that?" followed if necessary by "what makes you think that about me?" then find out what she thinks about you then DON'T ANSWER HER QUESTION UNTIL YOU KNOW WHAT THE RIGHT ANSWER IS!

Then we move on to other things about what is important to her..etc. Then I suggest that we should talk another time again, and she gets really frosty, and strange. It was really weird. Smooth and I switch off again, as he has loosened up the other two chicks for me. He takes his shot and Horror and Blue chick, and gets a lot farther with Blue chick, dancing with her, looks like its going great, but no kissing (he isn't able to get in). He goes back to the table and talk to her more, and then she totally wierds out on him too, and he gives up. He tells be later, that HB Bluedress is seriously fucked up/frigid somehow, very suddently, he'd never seen anything like it so suddenly. I agree, and tell him the same thing happened to me too.

I like this a lot too. I am going to use it :) HB tiny tells me she hangs out with HB Tits because she is so beatiful. I say oh really, you think so, and take HB Tinys hand, and run it over HB Tits ass.

HUH? HAHAHAHAHAHA I can't believe that move! that is fucking incredible! I love it! super-aggressive :) unless you left out a section where you determined that they were BIs, I was amazed when I read that ... really. you definitely have some tricks up your sleeve and some boldness you didn't mention in your other posts :) HB tits looks indifferent, but HB tiny is clearly enjoying it and an evil grin comes to her face. I ask then which is usually on top, HB tiny, or HB tits. HB tiny says she's on the bottom. It was funny. HB tits at this point starts telling me that she is not a lesbian, then tunes out of the conversation.

right. she is not a lesbian, therefore she is a bi. she was either telling you NOT to be discouraged in trying to fuck them by mistakenly assuming they don't like dick, or she was telling you that the other chick was BULLSHITTING and don't listen to her. either way, you are in a PRIMO spot here :) This is out of Smooths operating range, and he is looking, not really sure how to handle this. Smooth has a certain program with how to work on chicks, and this ain't a part of it it seems , he is not sure what I am trying to do. (the goal here, was to get some 3p or 4p action (3p, Japanese speak for menage a trois). I start commenting on HB tiny, and how she can handle that, and start touching her ass, and hair and stuff. She reacts okay. The whole time though, they only stay at the bar, facing away from other customers (they attend to us)..[turns out they stay there the *entire* night, facing away from everyone, I think we were the only guys who hit on them with any measure of success)]. HB tits leaves to go get a drink, and I am still working on HB tiny. Smooth leaves to go find the next chicks we'll hit on since he is not sure what to do here anyways. My Japanese falls apart for hard stuff, so I move on when HB tits gets back, as I am unable to keep HB tits engaged at all, she is turning a little frigid. HB Tiny and me start making funny getures to each other, and we are having fun. HB tiny is really interesting though, I should have gotten her number.

yes. you should have gotten her number. she seemed to really like interacting with you. what you ALSO should have done is EXTRACTED HB Tiny. you should have gotten her isolated and worked on her. Once you had her horny, you should have either tried to get some right there in the club or convinced her to convince her girlfriend. sometimes you can string chicks like that, especially if you get the leader of the pack or the driver for the night. Many times, one of us has snagged a leader and had to call extra guys to come and divvy up the extra bitches :) We go down, she is very very good, and a very passionate dancer. I am not bad too, and we kick ass on the floor, and get very Kino right away. We made the film "dirty dancing" look like a G rated kids good.

again ... he should have worked on his and gotten her horny enough to DRAG her girlfriend out of there and get her home. the only problem is that you didn't kiss her yet, so if you got home, you may have run into a situation where you have to chill and Smooth is the only one that fucks! much better to make sure both are getting on before you go home. under the circumstances, you had a bird in the hand, but as long as smooth got her number, the night was still young enough to be productive. it was the RIGHT move for sarging, but a bad move for just plain fucking chicks in general.

as you mention later, this is about the numbers game. eventually you land on a chick that is looking for action ... FROM ANYBODY! then you can move in quickly and easily to the fuck. the hardest part is sifting through bitches to find the FAST ones :) Now I am on my own, and something strange happens, I feel jealous somehow, because Smooth is well.so smooth, and I was doing okay, but not being as natural as he was (some part to experience, some part to language barriers which I face and he doesnt). But this feeling was something I didn't like.

good ideas on both fronts. when you start feeling fucked up, fix it or use it.

either pull yourself out of it or play "I'm having a fucked up day!" I get really intensely angry-looking when I'm playing bad day. sometimes chicks come over and ask me what's wrong ... most of the time however, EVERYBODY STAYS AWAY FROM ME :) It takes a certain type to play that one effectively :) Also, that tag-team shit is really good, but DOWNTIME of any sort is a no-no. you have time for DOWNTIME when you are asleep or at work, not while you are sarging.

mope some other time.

I get myself together, and head back down, to hit some more on my own. I run into Lager, who is looking a bit bummed out, and is being a wall flower. He gives me some excuse about how he looks for eye contact and interest first before making the hit, or it never works out (this is serious, I really got to talk to him), and that no one is giving me eye contact. He looks dark and serious, with no smile..not good.

that is sooooooooo stupid in a club. try seeing a chick's EYES in a club. it

is too dark, they flash lights in your eyes. it's nearly impossible which is why I will hang out under a light if I have to so I can see the chicks and they can see my eyes. the only way to do it is how you did it. keep looking for more and testing them. the ones that accept you, try for more. the ones that don't, move on ... if they approach you LATER ... Returning Fox.

pretty easy huh? :) We get a bit Kino, and talk at the same time. It is okay. I asked her about if she has a BF and all that, and what is important (honesty). I tell her where I am from and she says her last BF was from the same place, and was a liar. I tell her that sometimes Japanese girls aren't always honest either, but everyone is not the same, then change the subject to her values, job, and stuff like that. Talking is okay, then her obstacle friend (who I cannot get to dance with us), drags her away.

strangely enough, I just met an asian chick that told me the same thing. I asked what she valued in a relationship and she said "honesty" and nothing else. I was like "yeah, right ... what if he's fat and ugly but honest? will you date him?" she said "as long as he doesn't drool" hahaha basically, she was looking for a trait that cannot be immediately seen. it takes time to tell if someone is honest. you could make up stories about how you found someone's wallet and returned it with the money still in it. I think the best plan is what someone posted a while ago about taking her under what she is saying. ask her how it makes her feel to be with a guy that is honest. find out what FEELING she gets from honesty and then find out what ELSE makes her feel that way. Either demonstrate the OTHER THING if you can, or start a conversation about people that she thinks are honest, like her father and anchor her feelings of honesty to yourself.

I move on to the dance floor, and run into Mr.

Fuck that I say, she can come find me again if she won't talk to me right now, and I continue hitting.

perfect attitude. perfect decision. the reason that happened is that she is like the 20th chick you would have met in the night. she was EXPENDABLE! now if you were your wallflower wingman and heard that ... you would have stayed there UNTIL CLOSING TIME hoping that she would come back :) The chick who Mr. Aussie is hitting has a friend who shows up, (HB tall jeans), so I engage her.since she was dancing by herself, so I handle her, and we get a little Kino, and talk a bit like I did with HB Black Flower dress. This is going okay, we are getting into it in a few minutes. Then, HB Aussie, does a bad thing. He gets blown out by HB half top, and then he starts hitting on *my chick!*. Yelch!

well ... it's not really YOUR chick :) he started the whole thing with her friend and you semi-leeched off of knowing him to dance with the extra chick.

since he felt like you two know each other, he felt free to "join the party"

when his left. It was a faux-pas, but I'm sure he didn't THINK he was doing anything wrong :) Eventually, he clues into my rotten demeanor (fuck, Smooth would never do this to me!) and he bugs out after asking me if I like her ("yes! In case it wasn't obvious!"). I continue now working on HB tall jeans now that Aussie is gone. Then some other friends of hers show up, and drag her away. I hang on to her, and get her number before she disappears in the crowd though with the others.

cool. more options.

one thing you will notice is that easy chicks hang out with other easy chicks.

I know she was with the frigid chick at first. either she was frigid in general or she just didn't like YOU. either way, hang around long enough and more talent WILL arrive :) I get more bold, go for the neck, ass, like I did with samba babe, going well. I pull her in closer to me, no resistance at all, I look into her eyes, contact stays, and I kiss her and start tonguing her, while she rides my leg on the dance floor. I start putting my hands all over her, and I keep tonguing her, going for her througt, neck, and all over, and she is getting really hot. We do this for about 10 minutes, and I ask her if she likes me. She says "yes, do you like me", I say "yes", and I say "lets go".

very basic. very nice.

that's a good point. when chicks are no good at making out, it does not bode well for a professional blow job :( always a turn-off.

see what I mean about the game you are playing? her game was casual sex and your game is the same ... MATCH!

She gave me her email, so I can write her I guess if I want another fuck.

her name was not relevant to ANYTHING. she probably never told you her name.

another illustration of why it is UNIMPORTANT to announce your name to a chick before she asks you. WHO CARES WHAT YOUR NAME IS? What matters is what are you offering her ... get to that first. when she sees enough value, she'll ASK for your name ... or not :) Finally, a point to make. the last new chick I laid was Ms. Kinky, a few weeks ago, and I had to maybe hit on several hundred chicks before I got the next lay yesterday. Numbers here is important guys, especially until your skills get better. 100s' of chicks.

If I hit only 4 chicks a week, it would be a few years between lays! (for all you beginners out there!).

keep those numbers high :) Maniac From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Mon Jun 21 20:49:50 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!dallas-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei .net!newsfeed.wli .net!portc04.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: Mystery's insight Lines: 51 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 21 Jun 1999 15:23:52 GMT References: slrn7ms10g.oj.nathan@linuxserver.icommerce-france.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990621112352.01390.00003604@ng-ch1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:47783 Status: O mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d wrote: | one that wants to get fucked, as you stated in your post. for instance, look

| at the latest Maniac High post. that was a really good, persistant night of | sarging! when did he and smooth get on though? when they FINALLY landed on | tow chicks that WANTED TO GET FUCKED BEFORE THEY MET MANIAC AND SMOOTH!

that's | all there is to it.

Can you read minds???

NO. but I CAN read what he posted on the NG. go back and read it again.

Smooth didn't demonstrate SHIT and he tongued the chick down ON THE DANCE FLOOR, IN PLAIN VIEW OF EVERYONE! a chick that is announcing that she will make out with a guy in public like that is announcing it to ALL THE OTHER GUYS IN THE PLACE as well as whomever they come back with next week. THAT BITCH PUTS OUT is the signal she's sending. She is NOT concerned with her reputation at all. She is concerned with getting a tongue down her throat and later a dick down her throat.

You don't have to be able to read minds when you've been in the same situation HUNDREDS of times and you can tell the difference just by hearing it between a girl that was SEDUCED by someone and a girl that CAME TO THE CLUB LOOKING FOR DICK!

Actually, you're forgetting something here. Women who want casual sex are usually more interested in looks _for casual sex_ than for a long time relationship (seen in "The Evolution of Desires"). So for an average looking chump like myself ...

WRONG!

you can LOOK like whomever you want, but the chick that comes out looking for sex is looking for GOOD sex! If you can't give that to her, or at least make her THINK you can give that to her, then you are through. The ugliest, fattest, most disgusting guys can get girls by walking up to them and offering to eat them out and explaining that they have tremendous skills with their tongues. Most of the time, guys like this get to eat the chick out, then she boots them out of her house, or she lets them do it in the bathroom where it's safer. Sometimes though, the guy does it so well that the chick wants him to do it again ... voila! instant value! now the HB is chasing him to get that tongue in her pussy again ... now he controls the action.

Fuck looks, go for personality and confidence. Lack of confidence = lack of ability and the chicks can detect it. they don't want to report to their girlfriends the next day that Leonardo Decaprio fucked them for one minute and it sucked! they want to report that some guy approached them and fucked the shit out of them until 4am! that could be you if you get in there and demonstrate personality, value and skill.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Mon Jun 21 21:16:27 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!207.138.35.59.MISMATCH!nntp.primenet.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.wli .net!portc04.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: NYC, why not go to dance floor?

Lines: 77 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 21 Jun 1999 16:06:16 GMT References: iknb3.12617$Xr4.102625@c01read02-admin.service.talkway.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990621120616.01367.00003449@ng-ch1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:47785 Status: O NYC, in one of your posts, (maybe one of gregs?), You refer to a situation where he is sitting, talking to a chick, getting good results, and he decides to take her to the dance floor.

You didn't like this and said it was moving away from the goal/ sideways or something with regard to the final goal of fucking her.

But why? If you take her to the dance floor, you can get real kino, put your hands all over her ass, and chest, and tongue her and stuff that is harder to do when sitting down talking.

I'd like further clarification of what you meant, and why taking a chick to the dance floor after you are sitting talking with her would be a sideways or backwards move.

Thanks; Maniac excellent question Maniac :) in THAT particular case, I didn't like the move to the dance floor. in general, you are right. dancing is good because you can feel her up and stimulate her manually without people being aware of wht you are doing. you can have her ready to fuck right there on the floor.

let's presuppose that whomever posted that scenario wanted to get the chick back to his room and in his bed. I submit that you want to use your MOST EFFICIENT technique to achieve your desired outcome :) I personally can dance. I DON'T dance, but I CAN. if I take a chick out on the dance floor, I can turn her on completely. i have done it repeatedly. it is a FACT. I KNOW that if she lets me dance with her the way I want to, I will get her horny. All chicks FINE or ugly have the same physiology, and I know how to work her equipment :) actually by then, I would have elicited what she likes to have done to her and I would concentrate on what she already TOLD me to do to her :) OTOH, what I can do to her has NOTHING to do with DANCING! I can do the same thing to her on a couch, in a car ... it makes no difference WHERE I do it.

Dancing with her is a COPOUT EXCUSE for feeling her up. Was my desired outcome to DANCE with a girl that I like? or was it to FUCk a girl that I like? If dancing is the ONLY WAY she will let me feel her up, then I might do that.

This is all in the physical realm though and has nothing to do with SS.

If you are NOT secure in your dancing skills making a chick want to fuck you, DO NOT BOTHER DANCING! you are in a better position TALKING SS to her than dancing. That's why in that scenario it is a lateral at least and probably backwards move to dance with her. It's like changing venues from the coffee house to the restaurant. you have no idea what can change if you move her from where you HAVE HER ALREADY to the dance floor. If she wants to dance, then fine, you may have to go along with it, but I say assess your position and your skills. Sure you can cop feels off of her and maybe kiss her on the dance floor. Is that your desierd outcome? if so, congratulations, you did it :) it is really tough to give opinions without actually being in a situation. I have been in MOST of the situations I've read about here, and a lot wackier and harder to decipher situations to boot. there is no CONCRETE "do not take her back on the dance floor" all there is is "do what needs to be done and be who you need to be in order to effectively progress toward the desired outcome.

the other thing is don't think of PU as a direct, by-the-numbers thing, it isn't. hang in there until you get a major break, then skip way ahead in the progrm. it's like a CD. sometimes the CD skips and you are suddenly at the end of the song. If you know what you are doing and what signs she is giving off (which comes from field work) you can see how to SKIP the CD yourself. You will see in her eyes sometimes that she wishes you would kiss her. Her body will contort and she will instinctively grab you while you are talking softly in her ear, basically blowing in it. she will turn around backwayds and rub her ass on your dick with no prompting from you at all. catch the signs and make the detours! you do NOT have to go from talking to dancing to kissing to bed ... it might be dancing to talking to kissing to bed. it might be talking to kissing to bed (no dancing at all) ...

it might be coffee to spaghetti to bed Date: Mon, 21 Jun 1999 23:34:55 -0400

Instantly I?m in the conversation ? ?But it was funny? I protested. Moments later I?d introduced myself and started talking to them and ended up concentrating on the 8 in the group.

- out of the blue she asks me: "do you believe in the existence of a perfect woman?". that was unexpected so I struggle with "it all depends", "well, what?s perfect for someone, might not be perfect for someone else", "the beaty is in the eye of the beholder" and such, not really being able to give a coheret answer. so as to turn the tables, if even ever so slightly, I ask her the unimaginative "why do you ask?".

her: "well, I was just getting to that. because the next thing I wanted to ask, is do you believe than can be a perfect man:)"

me: "?"

From sales@eclipsx.com Wed Jun 23 00:33:30 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-peer.gip .net!news.gsl .net!gip .net!newspump.sol .net!news.execpc.com!newspeer.sol .net!newstank.sol .net!newsops.execpc.com!posts.execpc.com!daily-planet.newsops.execpc.com!usenet From: "EcliPSX" sales@eclipsx.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: How To REALLY Use A Winglady Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 00:04:55 -0500 Organization: ExecPC Internet - Milwaukee, WI Lines: 30 Message-ID: 7kpptl$at8@newsops.execpc.com References: 19990622.195719.-203435.66.Women_Purr____For_ME@juno.com NNTP-Posting-Host: minbar-1-186.mdm.mke.execpc.com X-Trace: daily-planet.newsops.execpc.com 930114293 11176 (None) 169.207.136.188 X-Complaints-To: abuse@execpc.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:47953 Status: O You need a stripper or a hot slut to pull it off I disagree. My GF is nice, but not a 9 or 10, but whenever we are out on the town, and she goes to the bathroom, I often have women approach me.

Doesn't happen when I am with my male friends.

Doug Women Prefer ME wrote in message 19990622.195719.-203435.66.Women_Purr____For_ME@juno.com ...

You need a stripper or a hot slut to pull it off, but why not take one out for the evening and let her hit on the guys who are with any woman YOU want?

What better diversion and boyfriend destroyer could you have?

__________ ______ ____ __________ ______ ____ _____ Get the Internet just the way you want it.

Free software, free e-mail, and free Internet access for a month!

Try Juno Web: https://dl.www.juno.com/dynoget/tagj.

From whoisthis19@my-deja.com Wed Jun 23 23:56:57 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!netnews.com!newspeer1.nac .net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: whoisthis19@my-deja.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: Witty retorts for rejection Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 04:31:44 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Lines: 170 Message-ID: 7kscbg$rh3$1@nnrp1.deja.com References: 37718DE9.676FB145@hotmail.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 152.168.186.33 X-Article-Creation-Date: Thu Jun 24 04:31:44 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; MSN 2.6; Windows 98) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x21.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 152.168.186.33 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:48066 Status: O In article 37718DE9.676FB145@hotmail.com , bjorn bjornbear43@hotmail.com wrote: **** HB: *She ignores you completely and says nothing* Sarger: ??? This seems to be the most commom type of rejection that I have encountered and I wish I had a witty comeback for it??? ANY IDEAS GUYS???

YES!!!! There's a whole post in this. I was going to post about a type of humor I use effectively when you dont have much information. I wish I could give you the voice inflection to pull this off. I'll first give what you make fun of. What you make funn of is her thougths and you say something as if its your inner mind speaking. Like she is reading your thougths or your thinking aloud on purpose.

Now in this situation what does a guy typically think? "Well now she's ignoring me"

Here's the line. Say this to her as if talking to yourself. Be humorous; "She just ignores me"

If she walks away; "She just walks away"

You can go extreme with this; "She's giving me the silent treatment and is thinking of mashing me over the head with her drink"

I can get laughs out of these situations. Have to be clever and think up a unique one on the fly that applies to what ever shitty behavior she is showing.

Its a way of teasing her for her behavior. Wish I could give you the inflection but as I see so few follow up to my posts I wont bother.

"They just ignore me." :) See there's an example aimed at the NG ...

Gregness ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** HB: Drop dead loser!

Sarger: *I have never experienced this type of rejection but have seen it many times in movies* ANY IDEAS GUYS???

** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** HB: FUCK OFF!!!

Sarger: *This retort requires you to watch the part in the movie Scarface when Al Pacino's character (Tony) gets rejected by HB Elvira* *Said in a "cocky" Cuban accent* Now jue talking to me baby ... that I like ... *grin while giving her the once over* ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** HB: I'm not into bald men.

Sarger: *Hopefully I won't need this retort for a while but I thought of a reply for the future* *Smiling* What? ... Afraid of a little bit of testosterone ...

alternately Sarger: Neither was my recently multiorgasmic girlfriend until she met me *laughing while walking away* ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** -80D28A6DB2EBBFE71D1C0C10 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit !doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en"

html     I have been thinking of witty retorts for times when an HB puts up the "bitch sheild" or is just plain rude in the way she rejects "sargers".  I imagine the "ideal" retort would be one where you do not burn any bridges and gain some respect from  the HB.  Here are some of the possible rejection scenarios that I can imagine with my witty and not so witty retorts.  If anyone has any better witty retorts then please share them with the group; p b HB: /b Sorry, but I have a boyfriend.

br b Sarger: /b i *Laughing* Hey, I just met you and you are already telling me about your problems ... /i br i ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ********* ** ** ****** /i br b HB: /b I'm not into short men br b Sarger: /b i *If she is taller then you,  "NEG" her immediately*  Well, I'm not into amazons but I thought I'd make an exception with you. /i i /i p i alternately /i i /i p b Sarger: /b i Neither was my recently multiorgasmic girlfriend until she met me *laughing while walking away* /i br b ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ********* ** ** ******* /b br b HB /b : *She ignores you completely and says nothing* br b Sarger: /b i ??? This seems to be the most commom type of rejection that I have encountered and I wish I had a witty comeback for it???

    b ANY IDEAS GUYS??? /b /i br i ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ********* ** ** ******* /i br b HB: /b Drop dead loser!

br b Sarger: /b i *I have never experienced this type of rejection but have seen it many times in movies*  /i b i ANY IDEAS GUYS??? /i /b br b i ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ****** ** ** ********** /i /b br b HB: /b FUCK OFF!!!

br b Sarger: /b * i This retort requires you to watch the part in the movie Scarface when Al Pacino's character (Tony) gets rejected by HB Elvira*  *Said in a "cocky" Cuban accent*  Now jue talking to me baby ... that I like ... *grin while giving her the once over* /i br b i ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ****** ** ** ********** /i /b br b HB: /b I'm not into bald men.

br b Sarger: /b   i *Hopefully I won't need this retort for a while but I thought of a reply for the future*  *Smiling*  What? ... Afraid of a little bit of  testosterone ... /i i /i p i alternately /i i /i p b Sarger: /b i Neither was my recently multiorgasmic girlfriend until she met me *laughing while walking away* /i br b i ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ** ****** ** ** ********** /i /b br b i /i /b   br i /i   br i /i   br i /i   br i /i   br   /html -80D28A6DB2EBBFE71D1C0C10- - Did you sleep with yourself or ... did you turn yourself down because you was too easy.

Sent via Deja.com https://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Thu Jun 24 08:40:58 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!howland.erols .net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: How does approaching Chicks change a person?

Lines: 53 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 24 Jun 1999 12:38:39 GMT References: 3771F449.9654D20@primus.com.au Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990624083839.06493.00002878@ng-fo1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:48115 Status: O Well you are trying to get laid. Just be the man is too simplistic NYC.

Who will spot you? Girls looking for quick fuck? Yeah i guess. Hehehe:) that's mainly what you are looking for A LA the Maniac High post. chicks looking for casual sex that you want to fuck ... MATCH. if you are looking for something else, it takes more time and energy.

my problem is with the word trying. we just have different philosophies about that. I never TRY to get laid. I present chicks the option to get fucked.

there is no trying involved. they accept or they decline. I live in a world of actions and reactions, not tries and failures. if a girl is on a bus and I am running after the bus and I can't catch it, then I TRIED to meet her :) there is no trying to meet in a bar. you approach or you don't. there is no trying to demonstrate personality. you get your point across or you don't (because you couldn't or she wouldn't stop taking or whatever). you fuck her or you don't. there is no TRYING in my philosophy. either you did what you had to do to make it happen, it happened by luck, or it didn't happen at all.

what I mean by BE THE MAN is be the best you can be on all fronts. be as in shape as you can be. be as friendly as you can be. be as intelligent as you can be ... be the best you can and meet women ... shit happens :) unfortunately, it is true that some of us are NOT interesting guys and cannot pull this off.

those guys need MORE tactics and MORE SS to achieve the same results.

I aint making anything up. If you yourself see a guy approach lots of girls and always walking away on his own what does that look like to you?

why don't you ask Mystery that? he "works the room" all the time. he meets chicks then leaves them where he left them then meets more chicks. he always walks away ON HIS OWN ... WITH NUMBERS! see, it all depends on what your goal is in talking to the chick. you look like a player if you walk into a bar and walk out in 10 minutes with a chick, then come back without her an hour later and do it again. let pee wee herman walk around a room meeting all the chicks ... you'd think HE'S a player too, right?

your logic FAILS because you don't realize how LITTLE a move needs to be made as a FIRST MOVE. White goes first, but what if white moves out his knight N-KB3 and then Black moves her pawn P-Q4 ... THEN WHITE MOVES HIS KNIGHT BACK!

who made the first move now?

Yes thats true. But make your moves too defensively and you mightnt get your point across.

right. thus my example of the knight move. you can display interest in her and get your point across, but still not cross that line into "trying" to fuck her. you can also display interest in her and not even go over to meet her.

The point is that by the time you go up to her, you want her ALREADY thinking "I hope that guy comes over here and talks to me".

From jonathan_ashton@my-deja.com Thu Jun 24 19:11:55 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!nntp.flash .net!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei .net!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: Jonathan Ashton jonathan_ashton@my-deja.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: Witty retorts for rejection Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:28:12 GMT Organization: Ashton Passion Lines: 88 Message-ID: 7kt17l$2b5$1@nnrp1.deja.com References: 37718DE9.676FB145@hotmail.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 136.152.139.211 X-Article-Creation-Date: Thu Jun 24 10:28:12 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.04 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.0.18 i686; Nav) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x36.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 136.152.139.211 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:48108 Status: O I have been thinking of witty retorts for times when an HB puts up the "bitch sheild" or is just plain rude in the way she rejects "sargers". I imagine the "ideal" retort would be one where you do not burn any bridges and gain some respect from the HB.

I agree. That's why I think witty retorts are a bad idea.

HB: I'm not into short men HB: Drop dead loser!

HB: I'm not into bald men.

When a women insults you, she is giving you a GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY to go to the whip and demonstrate that you won't take bullshit. And as we know, going to the whip generates sexual sparks faster than a flintrock penis.

A good response is to assertively point out and confront her behavior as HONESTLY as possible. No games here; the goal is to take away her game, expose her hidden motive, and leave her with nothing but direct communication. Say something like the following in a calm, firm, assertive, conversational tone. Do not speak loudly, sternly, shrilly, threateningly, parentally, or in any manner that might attract a bouncer's attention. You're aiming to make her feel guilty, not indignant.

"Why are you trying to hurt me when I'm just being friendly? I'm speaking to you civilly, and I expect you to be civil in return. Maybe you've had a bad day, but you have no right to take it out on me."

Now gaze into her eyes and wait for a response. Don't let silence bother you; wait as long as it takes for her to respond. Do not smile.

If all goes well, she might apologize and tell you why she's in such a bad mood today. Your directness might even lead to an intimate conversation. In the worst case, she might insult you again, in which case you should repeat your demand for respect with slightly different words. Don't back down from your expectations of good treatment - especially not this early in the relationship!

Of course, you can change the wording to suit your personality. In fact, this is a good opportunity to demonstrate personality, by giving a completely genuine response to her nastiness. However, be sure to retain the fact that you COMPLETELY IGNORE the superficial meaning of her comment (you're short, bald, a loser) and respond EXPLICITLY to the subtext: the fact that she's trying to hurt you, and your reaction to it. This is the LAST thing she expects. It flips her out of her state, leaving her with few alternatives but a genuine response of her own.

Also, DON'T insult her, cuss, or give her any other reason not to feel guilty. Take the moral high ground.

The advantages of assertively responding to her hidden subtext: - It demonstrates that you will not tolerate disrespect or supplicate.

You are manly and attractive.

- Now that her nastiness is out in the open, she owes you something to make it up to you (if she has any sense of guilt).

- Because you're being candid and you're depriving her of her default behavior, she may have to become genuine (even intimate) herself.

- You don't have to think of a witty retort in three seconds. One response fits all insults. It takes very little brainpower to state your honest feelings about her attempt to hurt you.

- You'll feel less fear approaching, knowing that any disrespectful response is an opportunity in disguise.

- Even in the worst case, you walk away with your head high and your self-respect intact.

The disadvantages of witty retorts: - Difficult to do well.

- Likely to generate another nasty response.

- Her pride may stop her from pursuing you.

- They don't show as much dominance or personality as a direct response.

Again, think GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY. Whether during the first meeting or well into the beginning of a relationship (or even a friendship), I look forward eagerly to the first act of real disrespect by a woman. Because that's the first opportunity to go to the whip, which generates a much stronger bond. I always get a total head rush from that first confrontation.

Ash P.S. If you don't like the above, here's a one-line-fits-all witty retort an acquaintance of mine would use if he got blown out right after the opener: "That's okay, I was just on my way to the bathroom anyway." It got him laid at least once.

Sent via Deja.com https://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

From zenhead@globalnet.co.uk Thu Jun 24 19:15:41 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!nntp.flash .net!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!remarQ73!supernews.com!remarQ.com!remarQ69!gxsn.com!not-for-mail From: "Dan Scorpio" zenhead@globalnet.co.uk Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: Witty retorts for rejection Date: Wed, 23 Jun 1999 05:26:29 +0100 Organization: GXSN Lines: 25 Message-ID: 7ktslc$33g$3@gxsn.com References: 37718DE9.676FB145@hotmail.com 7kt17l$2b5$1@nnrp1.deja.com 7ktprc$4v3a$1@newssvr01-int.news.prodigy.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.147.132.11 X-Trace: 930248172 1NNUCNF1G84B C393C gxsn.com X-Complaints-To: abuse@gxsn.com

X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:48143 Status: O Personally, I don't see a lot of mileage playing games & trying to come up with witty reactions (I can do it on the hoof, believe me) if you get the knock back (KB). What's the point - trying to salvage your ego/putting the woman down/making a prick of yourself?

Best reply I've seen yet (AND I've used it so I can vouch that it works) is Mystery's line 'It's been a pleasure meeting you.' The line can be delivered with utter sincerity or with devastating inflection.

The one exception I might make (and have) is to bitches who just pretend you aren't there: same line, but with ' ... didn't realise you were deaf.' added.

Jet wrote in message 7ktprc$4v3a$1@newssvr01-int.news.prodigy.com ...

Jonathan Ashton wrote in message 7kt17l$2b5$1@nnrp1.deja.com ...

I'd just walk away.

J From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Thu Jun 24 19:17:30 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!howland.erols .net!newsfeed.cwix.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: Witty retorts for rejection Lines: 36 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 24 Jun 1999 13:03:09 GMT References: 7kt17l$2b5$1@nnrp1.deja.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990624090309.06493.00002880@ng-fo1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:48118 Status: O Again, think GOLDEN OPPORTUNITY. Whether during the first meeting or well into the beginning of a relationship (or even a friendship), I look forward eagerly to the first act of real disrespect by a woman. Because that's the first opportunity to go to the whip, which generates a much stronger bond. I always get a total head rush from that first confrontation.

that's _very_ interesting. not only NOT FEARING or being apathetic to, but actually ANTICIPATING and WELCOMING her first signs of disrespect!

it does create a stronger bond or break the relationship altogether. it's like bending metal ... you can't bend it back straight again. also, the first confrontation tells you how she is going to react to your authority.

the normal course of events is to show her a good time and AVOID confrontation at all costs to try to CHARM HER into thinking certain things about you (he's nice, he's friendly, he's sexy ... ) but on another level, if she is not going to respect you, she is not very useful to you at all, and CERTAINLY not reliable.

this is incentive to go for what YOU want out of her ASAP. you will either get it or FORCE the CONFRONTATION right there :) it's a win-win, and quite efficient for weeding out cock-teases and prudes.

forcing a confrontation allows you to practice in case of an unforseen confrontation in a valued relationship. it also gives you clues as to how YOU respond under pressure ... how far you are willing to go to get what you want ...

what you are willing to stand up for.

fascinating I am going to use excess chicks to force confrontations. not fights of course, just asking them private questions and asking them for things until they HAVE TO take a stand and confront me on my noseyness or whatever. depending on how this goes, I will use it on decent chicks next and then move up to HBs.

:) From nathan@metabork.fr.eu.org Thu Jun 24 19:19:34 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!easynet-fr!buggy.easynet.fr!nathan From: nathan@metabork.fr.eu.org (Nathan SZILARD) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: Help with a Situation, Attn SSrs Date: 24 Jun 1999 09:35:15 GMT Organization: [Posted via] Easynet France Lines: 58 Message-ID: slrn3ldkhj1.2pi.nathan@linuxserver.icommerce-france.com References: 7kspgh$me4@dfw-ixnews17.ix.netcom.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.114.83.33 X-Trace: buggy.easynet.fr 930216915 65661 195.114.83.33 (24 Jun 1999 09:35:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynet.fr NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Jun 1999 09:35:15 GMT User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.4 (UNIX) Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:48098 Status: O Note: you might want to wrap your lines.

On 24 Jun 1999 08:16:17 GMT, The Maestro maestro@maestro.com wrote: | I need to call in the experts on this, Id appreciate the | opinions of the SSr's and the outfoxings peeps. Alrighty, | the situation is this, i was friends with this chick for | about 4 yrs. I honestly had no interest sexually with her | in the beginning, i was actually screwing one of her | friends. But anyways this all changed come around later, | like 4 yf. So I make a move, pretty much out of the blue.

| I come at with with a take it or leave it attitude. Of | course, being new to many attitudes of SS, | I slip up. She puts me on hold for 2 weeks saying its | all too much and she cant decide. So I push an answer out | of her, and she says shes not ready for that with me. I | say fine. Of course a couple weeks later she was asking | who i was dating, and the whole thing started up again, | and i pursued her ( bad move yeah i know) she basically | said she though i wanted her for just sex and all this

The usual female bullshit; I wonder if she really believes that or if it's just a way to shoot you down.

Anyway, the way to reply to this is quite simple: act pissed off. Example: "What? We've known each other for 4 years and that's the opinion you have of me? You know, I really thought you'd appreciate that I be genuinely honest and sincere with you. I'm really pissed off that you don't trust me more than that. For all that time, I thought we were really close but I guess this was just foolish of me."

She should apologize now. Don't accept her apologies without reluctance.

| crazy stuff of being so scared of getting close to someone | for the first time. Blah, so anyways, What does this mean? Is she a virgin?

| she gave what felt like a concession, said hey we can | date, and hookup and whatever. I felt like it was a | consession and just said, no thanks and bailed. It been | about a month since that, we havent talked really since, | my question of the day is how do i treat her now? Since i | will be running in to her now do to mutual friends it kinda | have to take an attitude. My problem is, im shitty with | middle grounds. Its either i blow them off or im after them.

| If this was just some regular friend, | I would blow her off, bu t the whole 4 yr thing kinda | makes it different, or does it? I think this forum has | addressed dealing with rejection from friends, but what | about long term friend, the same deal or no?

I dunno, I've fucked 2 long term friends, but basically this was after a long time without seeing them. And a lot had changed in between. So I could'nt tell.

From nightlight9@hotmail.com Thu Jun 24 19:26:43 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!nntp.flash .net!newsfeed.enteract.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: nightlight9@hotmail.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: How does approaching Chicks change a person?

Date: Thu, 24 Jun 1999 20:51:31 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Lines: 12 Message-ID: 7ku5oe$gvg$1@nnrp1.deja.com References: 3770DE98.765B0C61@primus.com.au 19990624003451.07780.00003773@ng-ck1.aol.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 131.107.3.77 X-Article-Creation-Date: Thu Jun 24 20:51:31 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT 5.0) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 RED-PRXY-07, 1.0 x34.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 131.107.3.77 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:48152 Status: O Since when has being a player been a negative in terms of getting chicks. Women like a man who can get other women. It makes them jealous and turns them on. I've had great luck with girls who have had others tell them I was a player, even better when the person telling them is a friend, even better when the person telling them is a girl, best when it's right in front of me.

NightLight9 Sent via Deja.com https://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

From danielt@primus.com.au Fri Jun 25 02:46:46 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!intgwpad.nntp.telstra .net!nsw.nnrp.telstra .net!not-for-mail Message-ID: 37732CB7.CAAAFA49@primus.com.au From: Daniel danielt@primus.com.au X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CONNECTPCW (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: Can Anyone Develop This?

References: 7klplq$5c0$3@gxsn.com 376f3009@nemo.idirect.com 7ko6e7$qto$3@gxsn.com 7ku1eu$p9u$3@gxsn.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Internet Primus Cache-Post-Path: diddley.primus.com.au!unknown@ras1440.ports.syd.primus.com.au X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see https://www.nntpcache.org/) Lines: 100 Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 17:16:07 +1000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.134.0.92 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telstra.net X-Trace: nsw.nnrp.telstra.net 930294884 203.134.0.92 (Fri, 25 Jun 1999 17:14:44 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 17:14:44 EST Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:48191 Status: O You could have just asked us, how do i get her horny? einstein.

You do that, by making her imagine horny situations.

Bring her memories up wherever she felt horny.

Make her talk about it.. Anchor all that shit and move into kino.

Dan Scorpio wrote: OK, spoonfeeding time - but I'm not gonna do all the work, so you guys better join in or this thread dies after this post.

a) sexual intercourse is a highly 'statebound' activity b) the activity is characterised mainly by kino & to a lesser extent by A, V, G & O c) words (Ad) play a minor part, consequently so does Aid (internal dialogue) - this is of course unless you & the HB happen do have a debate while you're doing it So, there is a statebound, primarily kino, activity lying there in memory.

You could try words to access it (but being kino, it's fundamentally dissociated). Question is, how do you elicit these FEELINGS (anyone beginning to see why kino is so important in a pu?) How do you elicit the context/cues in a sufficiently striking way as to reproduce the metastate?

Dan Scorpio wrote in message 7ko6e7$qto$3@gxsn.com ...

Of late, and for mainly NLP reasons, I've been looking at memory mechanisms and how to observe & modify them, amnesia - and it's deliberate introduction through various interrupt devices & the reciprocal interaction of deliberate and incidental single & multiple associative anchoring. Recently, I came upon this 'If the acquisition condition is an extremely unusual situation or traumatic life incident, the memory may become so isolated from the normal associative networks of everyday consciousness that it becomes totally statebound; it is completely dissociated and unavailable in the normal waking state so that one is amnesiac for it.' In addition, ' ... because particular events (episodic [statebound] memories) are characterised by their distinctiveness, their recovery has to be CONTEXT bound. It is confined to settings which bear a SUFFICIENTLY STRIKING 'family resemblence' to the original episode to provide the contextual cues that trigger the recall of the event.' and further: 'The classical psychoanalytical mechanisms of defense such as 'regression, repression, reaction-formation, isolation, undoing, projection, introjection, turning against the self, [sublimation] and reversal' are all cognitive strategies for coping with the basic processes of statebound information in their relationships to the associative structures competing for conscious awareness.' (Rossi & Ryan - 'Seminars, Workshops, Lectures of Milton H Erickson Vol III').

The capitalisation is mine and, before I move on, the book is highly recommended, there's a gem on almost every page.

So, you guys say it's 'anchoring', I say - although that is the general nature of the process - that simple anchoring, as defined in normal NLP terms (remember an event, apply a simple anchor - typically kino & then trigger the anchor to bring back the event) is not in the same league as this stuff.

The memories these people are attempting to access are episodic 'statebound' ones, generally non-associated in linguistic terms and often amnesiac (for example, see if you can recall a dream you had on the 22nd November 1998).

The mechanisms that are proposed for recovery are contexts/events/behaviours and settings of striking resemblance (OK, you can call these multiple associations 'anchors', but it's a pretty pale/misleading description as 'anchor' now has fairly specific connotations in NLP terminology.) Best idea I've seen yet to use this stuff in SS terms is from a guy who emailed me: he suggests one thing might be finding out the brand of cologne the HB's ex boyfriend used to wear at the height of their sexual activity.

There's a lot more that can be gleaned from the Rossi/Ryan quotes given, indeed I've worked out quite a bit more. But for now it's back to all of you ...

Mystery wrote in message 376f3009@nemo.idirect.com ...

yep, its anchoring Dan Scorpio wrote in message 7klplq$5c0$3@gxsn.com ...

'The retrieval of statebound information and behaviour [is achieved] via the reinstatement of the distinctive cues or acquisition conditions under which they were first acquired.' So how can you use that, SS'rs?

If there's interest, I'll write more - including the source/background.

(Statebound information is, in this context, predominantly body/emotional rather than verbal/linguistic).

- Hello, below are my net details ...

my home page - https://home.primus.com.au/danielt my email address - mailto:danielt@primus.com.au Regards, Daniel :) From danielt@primus.com.au Fri Jun 25 02:47:14 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!intgwpad.nntp.telstra .net!nsw.nnrp.telstra .net!not-for-mail Message-ID: 37732CB7.CAAAFA49@primus.com.au From: Daniel danielt@primus.com.au X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CONNECTPCW (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: Can Anyone Develop This?

You do that, by making her imagine horny situations.

Bring her memories up wherever she felt horny.

Make her talk about it.. Anchor all that shit and move into kino.

Dan Scorpio wrote: OK, spoonfeeding time - but I'm not gonna do all the work, so you guys better join in or this thread dies after this post.

Dan Scorpio wrote in message 7ko6e7$qto$3@gxsn.com ...

The capitalisation is mine and, before I move on, the book is highly recommended, there's a gem on almost every page.

There's a lot more that can be gleaned from the Rossi/Ryan quotes given, indeed I've worked out quite a bit more. But for now it's back to all of you ...

Mystery wrote in message 376f3009@nemo.idirect.com ...

yep, its anchoring Dan Scorpio wrote in message 7klplq$5c0$3@gxsn.com ...

If there's interest, I'll write more - including the source/background.

(Statebound information is, in this context, predominantly body/emotional rather than verbal/linguistic).

- Hello, below are my net details ...

my home page - https://home.primus.com.au/danielt my email address - mailto:danielt@primus.com.au Regards, Daniel :) From mystery@idirect.com Sun Jun 27 21:57:39 1999 From: "Mystery" mystery@idirect.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast References: 3770C57B.954944EE@primus.com.au 19990623081105.26151.00003154@ng-ba1.aol.com 3770D133.73AAF6CB@primus.com.au

Subject: Re: How does approaching Chicks change a person?

Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 19:40:29 -0700 Lines: 51 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: ts7-62t-30.idirect.com Message-ID: 37741284@nemo.idirect.com X-Trace: 25 Jun 1999 19:36:36 -0400, ts7-62t-30.idirect.com Organization: via Internet Direct Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.nntp.acc.ca!feed.nntp.acc.ca!cyclone.news.idirect.com!island.idirect.com!nemo.idirect.com!ts7-62t-30.idirect.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:48281 Status: O ahhhh ... the solution is to NOT hit for the first 5 to 15 minutes. you neg her, you entertain her, you remove the obstacles by being social to her friends, you convey the most important personality traits a woman wants ...

and THEN you finally CLOSE. To CLOSE is to get the #. And yes, getting her # tells her (without TELLING her) that you like her. see? So you dont close until the girl has a great impression of you. if after all this her body language does not hint at her liking you, you DONT CLOSE and you just EJECT. Its ART man! Its AWESOME and baby it WORKS!

Daniel wrote in message 3770D133.73AAF6CB@primus.com.au ...

MrSex4uNYC wrote: You say talk to girls but dont hit on them? Where is the progression to pu artist using that strategy?

Unless u r trying to get this guy to get over the fear of approaching girls.

now watch as you answer your own question :) I also think that if you do approach that many girls , you might give a bad impression to the girls you leave as you make your way to find more girls and the girls who see you talking to lots of girls and who you are about to engage.

I mean this never really stopped me but i am just pointing out.

For me if i saw a girl walking around talking to many guys i'd think of her as easy.

that's why you don't hit on them. you are not hitting on multiple chicks so you don't look like a slut. taa daa :) Can you see a loop here though? If u dont hit u wont get laid fast. If you hit you project bad rep.

The perfect solution..

Well i am waiting for it.

- Hello, below are my net details ...

my home page - https://home.primus.com.au/danielt my email address - mailto:danielt@primus.com.au Regards, Daniel :) From abra.ken@get2net.dk Sun Jun 27 23:28:18 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!newsfeed.direct.ca!dispose.news.demon .net!demon!newsfeed.tli.de!newsfeed1.uni2.dk!news.get2net.dk!not-for-mail From: "Kenneth Tindall" abra.ken@get2net.dk Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: orgy orgy puddin and hair pie X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: Kqrd3.269$9D2.451@news.get2net.dk Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 17:29:53 +0200 NNTP-Posting-Host: 129.142.202.238 X-Complaints-To: abuse@get2.net X-Trace: news.get2net.dk 930497322 129.142.202.238 (Sun, 27 Jun 1999 17:28:42 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 27 Jun 1999 17:28:42 MET DST Organization: get2net Internet Kunde Lines: 8 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:48422 Status: O The longest orgy scene ever written https://hjem.get2net.dk/abra-ken/index.htm click on GREAT HEADS From anonymous@web.remarq.com Sun Jun 27 23:54:07 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!remarQ73!supernews.com!remarQ.com!remarQ69!WReNclone!WReNphoon3.POSTED!WReN!not-for-mail From: Craig anonymous@web.remarq.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Truth or Dare Organization: https://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here X-Originating-Host: 209.179.13.220 X-Wren-Trace: cOXC4vflud/3sbHH9aukvqG2pLa6svSps72qt7WopeW4s/yquvKppbi3r7K59bbk5fr66/W1gc3p8Kzg9azl9K6m6+E= Message-ID: 930439894.17112@www.remarq.com Lines: 85 Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 15:31:30 -0800 NNTP-Posting-Host: 10.0.3.195 X-Trace: WReNphoon3 930440156 10.0.3.195 (Sat, 26 Jun 1999 16:35:56 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 16:35:56 PDT Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:48381 Status: RO Remember how easy it was to kiss girls playing truth or dare in high school? Well, guess what ... It still works with college age women ... Except now your fucking! My wingman and I use this everytime we bring girls back to my house. We always end up banging our chicks of choice, but the best part is you get to do freaky shit with both of them! Not to mention that the lesbian action (unavoidable when playing with me!) is a great way to psyche yourself up for some serious sex.

We make a plan about what and who we are gonna do before we start and prep each other with good dares and truths.

DO NOT play this without whip cream ... this is the most important acessory you will need. You will be amazed when you see how turned on a girl can get just by liking whipped cream of her stomach. Start off with little stuff like kisses and then move up to licking whipped cream off nipples, dryfucking, lapdances, and the closer ... Dare your wing to go in a room with one of the chicks for 5 minutes and see what happens. At this time grab the other girl and wear out your carpet. At this point the girls will be so turned on from the licking and kissing that you can basically do whatever you want with them. When your alone in the room you can be like,"I dare you to let me come in your mouth" etc.

Sounds great so far right? But your worried about how to get the game started. You cant just say, "Ok, time for truth or dare". To the girls it sounds more like, "Ok, time for us to use you for our sexual entertainment." You have to sneak them into it. My recipe goes like this: Start off with the greatest drinking game of all time, Asshole, to get them nice and liquored up. Then move on to the game Im about to describe.

Throw out any card below an 8. Take the rest and spread them in a circle around the biggest cup you can find. Now you take turns drawing cards.

8 = Band Names. Go around the table saying band names. Each name has to start with the last letter of the previous name. For instance, I say Vanilla Ice, the next person says Eric Clapton, next person says Nine Inch Nails. If you cant think of one in ten seconds then you drink and the next person draws a card.

9 = Truth. You can ask who ever you want.

10 = Person to left drinks for 5 sec.

Jack = Dare. Whoever you want.

Queen = Everyone drinks for 5 count.

King = Fill up the huge cup with 1/3 of the way full with whatever you are drinking. The person who draws the last king has to pound whatever nasty mixture ends up in the cup.

After a few rounds you will start running out of band names since you cant say the same one twice. Wait till one of the girls cant remember a band name then say,"Lets just pllay truth or dare". They will happily agree if your dares and truths were exciting and getting them horny.

My wing and I played this thursday night with 3 girls and 4 guys. At the beginning of the night the girls actually asked me if they could stay over so they didnt have to drive home drunk! After much a serious truth or dare session with tons of sexual acts, I dared my wing to go in a room for 5 min with one of the chicks and see what happens. They never came out. It was getting late and I had to work the next morning. I tossed the other two girls some blankets and said, "You two can sleep in my bed if you want, but dont be thinking we're gonna hook up and shit cause I really gotta get some sleep." 10 minutes later one of the girls cruises into my room, jumps in bed with me and starts kissing me. She was about an 8 but it was 3:30 so I told her I had to sleep and to leave her number and we would continue this the next night. In the meantime my brother has gotten the 3rd chick into his room and my other friend is spanking hank in my bathroom.

Ive never played this game before without all the girls willing to bang at the end, whether they have boyfriends or not. I got the idea a year ago when I was asking a girl if she had ever had a lesbian experience. She told me that the only time she ever did was in a crazy game of truth or dare when she got dared to eat some girl out for 5 min.

Neither of these girls were bi before it happened. This just goes to show that the possibilities are endless!!!

**** Posted from RemarQ - https://www.remarq.com - Discussions Start Here (tm) **** From mystery@idirect.com Mon Jun 28 00:20:05 1999 From: "Mystery" mystery@idirect.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast References: 377450FC.342AE667@callnetuk.com

Subject: Re: When to kiss?

Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 07:46:44 -0700 Lines: 27 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.161.243.82 Message-ID: 3774bcbd@nemo.idirect.com X-Trace: 26 Jun 1999 07:42:53 -0400, 209.161.243.82 Organization: via Internet Direct Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!nntp.flash .net!cyclone.news.idirect.com!island.idirect.com!nemo.idirect.com!209.161.243.82 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:48318 Status: O What signs do women give off to say they are insterested in a snog?

Maybe it's fear of her backing away and saying "I'm not kissing you!!!".

good question: You dont go in a just kiss her hoping she is ok with it.

You have to indicate to her your desire. I do this verbally through my patented KISS CLOSE.

ME: Would you like to kiss me?

if she says NO then its "I didn't say you COULD ... you just looked like you were undressing me with your eyes and I wore my childhood spiderman under-roos today so that was maybe a big uncomfortable for me." But ... if she hesitates for a bit or says, "I don't know" she wants to but is only hesitant because she is processing the situation ... afterall kissing has implications (social and personal).

ME: Let's find out. *kiss* 5 mins later I go to the dance floor to look for her and she is there with another bloke snogging him. Yup I'm gutted!

snooze = no snog memorize the kiss close. its a charmer. no worrying about going to jail.

its gentlemanly.

From mystery@idirect.com Mon Jun 28 01:18:05 1999 From: "Mystery" mystery@idirect.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast References: 37718DE9.676FB145@hotmail.com

Subject: Re: Witty retorts for rejection Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 04:48:00 -0700 Lines: 49 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="-=_NextPart_000_019D_01BEBEC5.E6E11CE0"

X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1

X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: ts7-36t-15.idirect.com Message-ID: 37734150@nemo.idirect.com X-Trace: 25 Jun 1999 04:44:00 -0400, ts7-36t-15.idirect.com Organization: via Internet Direct Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!nntp.flash .net!cyclone.news.idirect.com!island.idirect.com!nemo.idirect.com!ts7-36t-15.idirect.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:48201 Status: O This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

-=_NextPart_000_019D_01BEBEC5.E6E11CE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable HB: *She ignores you completely and says nothing*=20 Sarger: ??? This seems to be the most commom type of rejection that I = have encountered and I wish I had a witty comeback for it??? ANY = IDEAS GUYS???=20 yep I use "Pleasure meeting you." I smile at her patheticness, remain = a perfect gentleman and when she sees me with people later, I make sure = we all laugh at her.

-=_NextPart_000_019D_01BEBEC5.E6E11CE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable !DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN"

HTML HEAD META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 = http-equiv=3DContent-Type !doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 = transitional//en"

META content=3D'"MSHTML 4.72.3110.7"' name=3DGENERATOR /HEAD BODY bgColor=3D#d8d0c8 DIV B HB /B : *She ignores you completely and says nothing* = BR B Sarger: /B =20 I ??? This seems to be the most commom type of rejection that I have=20 encountered and I wish I had a witty comeback for = it???    B ANY=20 IDEAS GUYS??? /B /I BR /DIV

DIV   /DIV DIV   /DIV DIV FONT size=3D2 yep I use >> "Pleasure meeting you." = I smile=20 at her patheticness, remain a perfect gentleman and when she sees me = with people=20 later, I make sure we all laugh at her. /FONT /DIV /BODY /HTML -=_NextPart_000_019D_01BEBEC5.E6E11CE0- From nightlight9@hotmail.com Mon Jun 28 19:08:42 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!netnews.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: nightlight9@hotmail.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: Teaching women how to orgasm Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 17:11:18 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Lines: 95 Message-ID: 7l8aba$mgl$1@nnrp1.deja.com References: 37674c0c@nemo.idirect.com 19990616092347.11381.00000117@ng-fo1.aol.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 131.107.3.82 X-Article-Creation-Date: Mon Jun 28 17:11:18 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows NT 5.0) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x36.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 131.107.3.82 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:48486 Status: O Tried this line out last thursday: Out with a large group (some aquaintences some not). Came with a girl who had given me here number two weeks before (she was a non- aquaintence in the group). She started chatting up some other guy, and she had brought two friends so I decided to have some fun with the friends (both 7-8's who were both what I would call concervative but playful). To make a long story short. I build raport for about 10-15 minutes with a little sexual inuendo, and then they asked me what I did. I used the line (I could have had a better delivery, but I hadn't thougth about it much in advance, see note below). The reaction I got from them was small. They both smiled. Over all it was good, considering it was the first overtly sexual thing I had said, and got them into a sexual frame of mind. At least one of the girls wants to fool around with me, so it put me in the proper light :-) The other girl was in from out of town, so I haven't gotten any further feedback from her. I'll use it again.

NightLight9 As a note on the delivery, does anyone notice that you can be smooth if you practice a line or if you go off the top of your head. But it's hard to do a line you haven't practiced. If I were an actor, I would be a character actor, I really have to put myself in the proper mood/mode for my role.

In article 19990616092347.11381.00000117@ng-fo1.aol.com , mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC) wrote: its not a good opener because is evokes SEX right away. (yes I know you were joking but I thought about it and it DOES evoke more curiousity than "Can I buy you a beer?"

yes ... I was joking :) however, my style is digital sometimes, 1 or 0, on or off, 0mph or 60mph. If I determine BEFORE the question "what do you do for a living" comes up that the chick is either a PRUDE that is not going to fuck without a prolonged process of bullshit or a NYMPHO that is already interested in fucking ... I WILL TRY THIS LINE OUT :) The reasoning behind it is there are only two ways to respond to it.

She wants me to teach her how to orgasm or she DOESN'T! If I think she is a prude (read: a waste of my time except as a pivot) and I am not looking for another pivot (read: she is expendable) I will drop this line on her to CUT TO THE CHASE!

She will either get interested or get mad and leave ... fuck her.

Wasting field-time talking to a chick that isn't going to fuck is DOWNTIME as far as I'm concerned. I count that as time BETWEEN real chicks! OTOH if it is some sex-chick and I think she's ready to go, I will drop this line on her and if she really is interested, I should get a response like "what do you teach" or "will you teach me?". Also, if she balks at it / looks disgusted, I know she is a tease and she falls in the DOWNTIME category immediately ... bye bye! This is all theory however, since I have NOT used this line yet :) Middle of the road chicks, you are right, I would never use this because it tips the balance of the facade I out up in order to get close to them. Bad move.

MrSex4uNYC wrote in message 19990611151119.28848.00000105@ng34.aol.com ...

How would you teach a woman, who never orgasmed, to orgasm? Anyone here have success with that?

Fuck that!

However ...

That's a really good answer to: "So, what do you do for a living?"

Sent via Deja.com https://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

From nightlight9@hotmail.com Mon Jun 28 19:13:06 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!howland.erols .net!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: nightlight9@hotmail.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: How does approaching Chicks change a person?

Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 16:43:28 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Lines: 45 Message-ID: 7l88nd$lnf$1@nnrp1.deja.com References: 3770DE98.765B0C61@primus.com.au 19990624003451.07780.00003773@ng-ck1.aol.com 7ku5oe$gvg$1@nnrp1.deja.com 37741688@nemo.idirect.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 131.107.3.74 X-Article-Creation-Date: Mon Jun 28 16:43:28 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows NT 5.0) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 RED-PRXY-04, 1.0 x27.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 131.107.3.74 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:48480 Status: O I have to disagree, I've have very good luck with women who have been told I was specifically a player. I've asked them why afterwards, here are some of the responses: I wanted to play _you_.

I wanted to be the one to change you. (note: paraphrased) I didn't hear it (note: it was spoken directly to her by a mutual aquaintence with me standing there - so it was at least heard subconsciously) I do agree that you have to be prepared for it to come. I think it's much more damaging when it comes up because she's figuring it out on her own.

NightLight9 In article 37741688@nemo.idirect.com , "Mystery" mystery@idirect.com wrote: agreed. well semantics becomes important here .. finally.

LADIES MAN good PLAYER bad same thing really but we dont have to tell the girls that.

nightlight9@hotmail.com wrote in message 7ku5oe$gvg$1@nnrp1.deja.com ...

Since when has being a player been a negative in terms of getting chicks. Women like a man who can get other women. It makes them jealous and turns them on. I've had great luck with girls who have had others tell them I was a player, even better when the person telling them is a friend, even better when the person telling them is a girl, best when it's right in front of me.

NightLight9 Sent via Deja.com https://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Sent via Deja.com https://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

From danielt@primus.com.au Mon Jun 28 19:22:33 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!remarQ73!supernews.com!remarQ.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!intgwpad.nntp.telstra .net!nsw.nnrp.telstra .net!not-for-mail Message-ID: 37742E1D.9DD48517@primus.com.au From: Daniel danielt@primus.com.au X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CONNECTPCW (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: Can Anyone Develop This?

References: 7klplq$5c0$3@gxsn.com 376f3009@nemo.idirect.com 7ko6e7$qto$3@gxsn.com 7ku1eu$p9u$3@gxsn.com 37732CB7.CAAAFA49@primus.com.au 7l04uh$rr$3@gxsn.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Internet Primus Cache-Post-Path: diddley.primus.com.au!unknown@ras1122.ports.syd.primus.com.au X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see https://www.nntpcache.org/) Lines: 141 Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 11:34:21 +1000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.134.0.92 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telstra.net X-Trace: nsw.nnrp.telstra.net 930360778 203.134.0.92 (Sat, 26 Jun 1999 11:32:58 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 26 Jun 1999 11:32:58 EST Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:48300 Status: O Oh ok, in that case move your hands and body in suggestive ways.

E.g. if u drinking wine put your finger somewhere on the glass and make circular rubbing motions and smile seductively.

Play footsies hahaha Touch her hand and rub your fingers against her hand. give her hand massage.

move up the forearm if she still doesn't wanna go to bedroom then continue.

Dan Scorpio wrote: Einstein indeed! Heh, heh, heh. You're entirely missing the point: since the experience is EPISODIC, you aren't going to elicit it very well using words.

Try again, assuming words are not permitted (oh, yeah and 'feeling her up a bit' isn't really an answer either, be more specific about that aspect).

Daniel wrote in message 37732CB7.CAAAFA49@primus.com.au ...

You could have just asked us, how do i get her horny? einstein.

You do that, by making her imagine horny situations.

Bring her memories up wherever she felt horny.

Make her talk about it.. Anchor all that shit and move into kino.

Dan Scorpio wrote: OK, spoonfeeding time - but I'm not gonna do all the work, so you guys better join in or this thread dies after this post.

Dan Scorpio wrote in message 7ko6e7$qto$3@gxsn.com ...

The capitalisation is mine and, before I move on, the book is highly recommended, there's a gem on almost every page.

There's a lot more that can be gleaned from the Rossi/Ryan quotes given, indeed I've worked out quite a bit more. But for now it's back to all of you ...

Mystery wrote in message 376f3009@nemo.idirect.com ...

yep, its anchoring Dan Scorpio wrote in message 7klplq$5c0$3@gxsn.com ...

If there's interest, I'll write more - including the source/background.

(Statebound information is, in this context, predominantly body/emotional rather than verbal/linguistic).

- Hello, below are my net details ...

my home page - https://home.primus.com.au/danielt my email address - mailto:danielt@primus.com.au Regards, Daniel :) - Hello, below are my net details ...

my home page - https://home.primus.com.au/danielt my email address - mailto:danielt@primus.com.au Regards, Daniel :) From josh@nsw.bigpond.net.au Mon Jun 28 19:35:51 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!intgwpad.nntp.telstra .net!news2.c2.telstra-mm.net.au!not-for-mail From: Josh O'Brien josh@nsw.bigpond.net.au Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: How to get girls to pick you up Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 02:08:45 +1000 Organization: https://www.geocities.com/area51/lair/2382 Lines: 18 Message-ID: 37779E0D.3BF1EC09@nsw.bigpond.net.au References: 19990627.234832.-228175.30.OutfoxinngTheFoxes@juno.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.192.48.65 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: m2.c2.telstra-mm.net.au 930586154 21913 24.192.48.65 (28 Jun 1999 16:09:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@m2.c2.telstra-mm.net.au NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Jun 1999 16:09:14 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:48476 Status: O Outfoxing The Foxes wrote: Some Guy Writes: I read that there is a technique for getting girls to pick you up. I vaguely remember the logic being that one must first change his mind set so that he thinks only of himself in narcisistic terms. One's vanity becomes upper-most. Supposedly women pick up on the vibe try to pick u up. Also there is the simple matter of practicing fresh breath,which is a girl magnet.

-The key is to have a GIMMICK. Try a tarot deck in a coffeehouse sometime; or online, put in your profile that you are a professional psychic. There are TONS of gimmicks (musical instruments are one), and Ross himself uses the gimmick of being a teacher of "hypnosis and seduction." Once you know how to work a gimmick, you've got it made.

Try palmistry. Touching her hands can work wonders.

From SixthSense@xtra.co.nz Mon Jun 28 19:41:40 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!dallas-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!lsanca1-snf1!news.gtei .net!news.netgate.net.nz!news.xtra.co.nz!not-for-mail From: "Sixth Sense" SixthSense@xtra.co.nz Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Transformation from A.F.C. Part 8 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 23:26:04 +1200 Organization: Customer of Telecom Internet Services Lines: 175 Message-ID: 7l7mei$47s82$1@titan.xtra.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Host: 210-55-148-84.dialup.xtra.co.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: titan.xtra.co.nz 930569490 4452610 210.55.148.84 (28 Jun 1999 11:31:30 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@xtra.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Jun 1999 11:31:30 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:48461 Status: O Part 8 Thanks to everyone who has emailed me or posted positive responses & criticism to my articles.

If anyone else tried to email me and had their email bounce, try again - I' ve now fixed my return email address.

Well, I had hoped to post more of my adventures over the last week, but because I developed a bad case of RSI due to all the typing last weekend I' ve had to take it gently on the keyboard. Also, I've so little time because I've spent almost every night over the last 10 days out until between 1-4am having fun with this stuff. In fact, the only reason I'm typing now is that I'm at home sick, most likely due to lack of sleep. :-) It's been a fun week and my confidence in meeting women is growing all the time. So much that I am finding myself starting conversations with people without thinking and half way through realising "Hey, here I am having a great chat to a gorgeous woman - how did that happen?". Because I'm less & less caught up with what they will think of me, or what I should say it's all flowing a lot more naturally and I'm talking to them out interest, rather than because I want anything from them.

And the fun! Experimenting with different NLP and S.S. technologies is such a laugh. Some more examples will follow later in this post.

Keep in mind that at the moment my goal is still just to create great rapport and have fun. I haven't yet concentrated on closing - although, given the success again this weekend, I'm going to start doing so very soon now.

On Monday 21st I had lunch with two high school friends - one an A.F.C. and the other a woman ("M"). Well, because I'm bouncing off the walls with enthusiasm, they soon asked why and I ended up talking about NLP and Speed Seduction applications etc. The coolest conversation followed.

Initially M was quite defensive about the use of these "manipulating techniques", but the more I explained, the more she had to agree that women are naturally very good at manipulation and they are looking for guys that can stand on their own two feet and take control etc. I'd be saying things like: "It's useless to compliment an extremely attractive woman on her appearance, because they get it all the time and will just think it's a hit - am I right M?". M would be stumped momentarily while she decided to accept the implied compliment or try and refute what I was saying (which she couldn't anyway).

Over the course of the conversation she swung around entirely from the defensive to telling my A.F.C. friend that he HAD to go into town with me to learn these techniques as well! So, M and I ended up convincing him to come along to the intro dance night along with the two of us the next night (M used to teach Latin American dance herself and has also offered me free lessons - cool eh?).

Guys, if you've ever wanted to impress a girl - learn to dance. Women love a guy who is comfortable on the dance floor. I'm sure Manic will agree, right Maniac? Dance classes also appear to be one of the world's best secrets - HBs everywhere. I walked in the door and instantly had 2 very attractive women checking me out. Turns out they're both part instructors or from advanced classes, so I'm going to ask them for extra lessons. :-) The dance lesson was tough - us guys generally seem to suck coordination wise, and I'm better than the average Joe. Still, I'm definitely sticking it out and doing the full course. A little bit of pain and humiliation now will be worth the ability to dance well later on.

After the lesson my A.F.C. friend and I say goodbye to M and head across the street to a café to talk. He's hung up on this one girl he likes and is following her around like a puppy dog trying to be nice etc. I started explaining how this wasn't going to work and was likely to put her off more than anything and why doesn't he learn some of these skills to improve his chances of getting her.

I start showing him the body language between couples in the café and before long he's starting to believe as I show him a couple where the girl wants the guy and the guy is slouching in his seat looking depressed, entirely unaware that she feels this way about him.

Another couple the guy is hitting on the girl and she's hesitating - body language indicating interest, but a bit defensive - probably unsure. After a while we can see he's getting frustrated and giving up just as she's starting to relax. Opportunity lost because he can't read her.

My friend, let's call him MrVid (he's in film school) is starting to warm up to the idea that there may be something in what I'm saying. As a joke I suggested we pop down to a local strip club to see if a mutual friend might be there who had mentioned he sometimes goes on Tuesday nights. MrVid is hesitant but eventually agrees and off we walk. I haven't been to a strip club for years and was feeling a tad nervous (not really my scene), but decided that I could try out Rykers Anti-Blush technique for fun.

We get to the strip club and our MrVid heads for the table furthest away from the stage. I grab him and sit him down at one of the closest. The table is placed between him and the stage, while I deliberately sit to the left of the table so the girls can come and play if they want. The dancers are hot!

Every one a 7 or nicer. Surprisingly tasteful place as well - not at all as sleazy as I imagined it would be. Perhaps 20 other guys in the room.

So, I tell MrVid that we're going to have some fun. First I tell him that we 're going to deliberately ignore the dancers and just chat between ourselves, studying the body language of people around the room. I bet him that because we're not taking any interest in the dancers they'll start to come over and tease us a bit. So a few minutes later I'm sitting facing the stage, but twisted to my right telling him about my experiences the week before when I feel something brush my left leg. I turn back to find the current dancer straddling my knee, breasts (very nice) 10 centimetres from my face. Aha, time to try out Ryker's Anti-Blush technique - I stare her straight in the eyes and smile, refusing to look at her body. We hold gaze for maybe 20 seconds before she breaks away, obviously surprised at the fact that I wasn't looking at anything other than her eyes. Hehe, I win.

Now I've set something of a challenge and successive dancers also come across trying to get my attention. They also try to hit MrVid but he's difficult to access behind the table, so they come back to me instead. I hold gaze on a couple more and then start to interact a bit more as they tease me. Seeing my interest increase the dancers get even closer and a bit more physical. :-) Still, it all ends quickly when they realise I'm still not going to tip. However, by this time I've had at least as much attention as any of the guys who have been tipping - and all for free.

So, now that they're ignoring me I turn back to MrVid and get back into the discussion. I notice one of the dancers (an absolute 10!) sitting at the next table has been glancing at me for a while, probably trying to figure out what we're doing. I tell MrVid to watch as I demonstrate the Ignore principal. The next time she looks, I smile a little, shake my head slightly and turn back to MrVid. Out of the corner of my eye I see she's surprised and a bit annoyed. So now she starts trying to tease me by releasing the shoulder straps on her dress and revealing more of her breasts in a very seductive manner. I catch her gaze again and turn away indifferently. She continues to increase the cleavage showing until eventually she is displaying everything and giving me a look like "I dare you to look away now". I smile, roll my eyes at her(!), shake my head as if to say "Oh, please, I'm not interested". She gets sulky, fixes up her dress and stomps off to the other side of the room where she sits down but still keeps glancing my way now and then.

MrVid and I discuss the results and then I suggest that I can get the attention of the dancers back without tipping any money. MrVid asks how. I pull my wallet out of my jacket and put it on the table. :-) I'm such a prick. Sure enough, I've got another girl dancing on my knees in no time.

Again they quickly give up when they realise I'm not that serious.

At the same time the girl selling the tip money, which we've been waving away all night, comes and sits at our table to listen in to what we're saying. I ask her about her braided hair and end up talking to her for 15 minutes finding out all about her, her job etc. Great, friendly conversation and I got the impression that she was impressed I was genuinely interested and not hitting on her. She had to leave to carry on the rounds.

MrVid and I keep talking for a while and I glance at my watch - damn it's 2:30am and I have to get up for work at 7am! We head for the door where the 10 and tip girl are sitting. I walk up to tip girl and ask for a $5 tip completely ignoring the 10 next to me. Out of the corner of my eye I see her sulking with a look on her face like "you're going to tip someone else and not me?". I get the tip money and turn to face the 10, gaze straight into her eyes, smile and say "this is for you", handing her the money. She's shocked at first - it was the last thing she expected. Then she beams at me and says "thanks!". I say "you're welcome" and thank tip girl for the conversation and step to the door. As I exit I stop and look back - the 10 is looking at me like "where are you going - I want to talk more" and tip girl is nodding her head and laughing like "hey that was cool."

Ah, the fun you can have with this. I'm tempted to go back to the club this week to see what the 10 and tip girl will say. I definitely got the impression that they were impressed that I indicated interest without hitting on them in any way. I'm keen to ask the 10 out for coffee and see what she says. I just have to figure out a way that indicates specific interest in her as a person, rather than coming across as just another pick up.

From SixthSense@xtra.co.nz Mon Jun 28 19:47:33 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!dallas-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!lsanca1-snf1!news.gtei .net!news.netgate.net.nz!news.xtra.co.nz!not-for-mail From: "Sixth Sense" SixthSense@xtra.co.nz Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Transformation from A.F.C. Part 9 Date: Mon, 28 Jun 1999 23:26:47 +1200 Organization: Customer of Telecom Internet Services Lines: 156 Message-ID: 7l7mek$47s82$2@titan.xtra.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Host: 210-55-148-84.dialup.xtra.co.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: titan.xtra.co.nz 930569492 4452610 210.55.148.84 (28 Jun 1999 11:31:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@xtra.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Jun 1999 11:31:32 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:48462 Status: O Part 9 Thursday 24th.

I head into town to play pool with some a couple of friends - Kev & Brett.

Brett wanders off to play on the slot machines while Kev and I play. Kev asks what I've been up to so I start telling him about the weekend before He 's suspicous that I'm making it up but I start pointing out the body language happening around the room and he starts getting interested. Before long he suggests we stop playing pool and go to the local restaurant/bar so I can show him some stuff. So, we collect Brett and head off.

Arriving at the bar I sit down at table near the bathrooms with a full view of the bar and then explain that we need to look totally involved in our conversation, rather than three guys obviously checking out the girls.

There's a group of girls at the bar, but they are totally self-involved - out having a good time and not paying any attention to anyone else. I'm in full swing recounting the strip club fun as two women walk in, sit at the bar and order a drink - both 6's in my opinion, Miss RedTop and Miss GreyTop . Miss Redtop has a huge chest so Brett's interested, but not my type at all - the rest of her is too large. I like the athletic types with very pretty faces.

Observation: Three weeks ago I couldn't imagine walking up to and approaching any woman I found mildly attractive and now they have to be near gorgeous before I'll even consider it! Amazing how my belief levels have changed so fast in that time..

Miss Redtop turns and surveys the bar and stops to look at us a few seconds.

I mention to Brett and Kev that I think Miss Redtop may be interested in one of us and to keep watching for further glances. Sure enough, a few seconds

later she glances again and I realise it's me she's interested in.

Observation: I beginning to suspect that the mere fact that I'm a lot more aware of when women are looking at me is helping to bring me more and more attention. Maybe they find the fact that this guy almost immediately notices when they're looking intriguing and worth further examination? I'm not sure yet. Maybe it's just that I'm projecting more confidence by the day.

Something to think about further.

I smile slightly when she looks next and she smiles back and starts whispering to her friend. I tell the guys that the friend is going to check out us in a few seconds and sure enough after a suitable pause, Miss GreyTop casually glances our way. Brett & Kev are impressed as they would have normally missed it entirely.

Miss RedTop is glancing my way more often and starts playing with her hair.

The next thing was so obvious that I can't believe I missed it - Brett had to point it out. Miss RedTop raises the stakes by getting off her bar stool, pushing it away and standing side on to us. She casually grabs the corner of her black cardigan and holds it as she puts her hand on her waist. Now we have a full side on profile - tight fitting red top over the ample chest, tight fitting skirt etc. She then turns, stares me dead in the eyes and gives me the "do you like what you see?" look. I smile back and carry on chatting to the boys.

Just then two attractive women walk in and sit at the other end of the bar and start talking with the bar tender A bit hard to see from here but definitely more my type. I tell the boys it' s time for another drink and to watch what I do. I walk straight past Miss RedTop, right up to the two women, sit on the barstool right next to them

and listen into the conversation. The girls are talking about an accident a couple of days earlier where a customer slipped on the way out of the door and fell backwards, stuck her hand out and had a finger sliced off in the door! The irony being that the name of the bar is "Sticky Fingers"!

I jumped into the conversation by ordering a drink and asking the bar tender whether the customer cut her finger off between the two glass doors, or in the hinge. The girl next to me turns around and says "It's you!". I suddenly realise I'd met her a couple of months before while helping her old flatmate with a financial plan to get her out of debt. Tania is a slim 8, dark almost shoulder length hair, and very pretty face. Her friend is also an attractive 8.5 with long black hair and looks a lot like Liv Tyler. Yumbo. I say hi to Tania and we chat about our friend briefly and then about what Tania's doing now. Tania introduces me to her friend Melissa - we shake hands. Nice smile.

Tania & I keep chatting while Melissa listens. I turn around to rescue my jacket off the floor where someone else is about to step on it and overhear Melissa whisper to Tania "Oh, he's kind of cute isn't he!". Aha!! I turn back and start to have some fun mirroring both of them, having just listened to an awesome tape on mirroring that day. Every 30 seconds I stop mirroring Tania and start with Melissa who soon starts giving off good vibes, so I concentrate on her.

Now the tape I listened to talked about how you can "pace" somone by mirroring the same movements to create massive rapport, as long as you wait a few seconds before making the same move. As the rapport grows you can decrease the lag time between movements and eventually start "leading" the other person. The guy on the tape was giving examples of how he would mimic things like facial tics and stutters and emphasised that although your brain will scream "I'm going to get caught" that it is very, very rare to get busted at all, no matter how weird the movements.

I thought, what the hell, let's try it. I assumed exactly the same pose as Melissa, facing her straight on. She starts stroking her hair with her right hand as she leans on the bar. I wait a few seconds and start stroking my hair the same way! I have short hair and my brain is screaming "You idiot!

You're going to get slamed for this" and yet she doesn't notice and I can see the rapport is building massively. She crosses her legs the other way and I do the same while continuing to talk to Tania. I ask Melissa what she does - she leans forward and I match the movement a couple of seconds later.

When she drinks I drink. When she turns to acknowledge what Tania is saying, I do the same.

I've been with the girls for a few minutes now and am concious that I have Kev and Brett waiting at the table. I turn to Tania and explain that I'd better get back to my friends. She immediately offers her phone number and the phone number of her ex-flatmate and writes them down on a piece of paper. Melissa looks at me and then says "What about mine. write mine down too!". Tania writes it down and hands me the bit of paper. I thank them and look Melissa in the eyes while telling them that I have a party coming up and I'll call them both to make sure they're there. Melissa is still indicating full interest as I walk back to the table and keeps glancing my way - still playing with her hair.

I place the piece of paper on the table and slide it over to Kev & Brett.

They look at me with shocked expressions and say "how they hell did you do that!". Kev leans over and says, "What was the address of that Speed Seduction website again and how can I get access to that newsgroup?". (-: I scribble it down for him. Then Brett and Kev both agree they have to go and we head for the door. Half way there I realise I don't want to go, say my goodbyes, and immediately sit down with Tania and Melissa again explaining that they'll have to look after me as my friends have gone.

Once again I'm immediately mirroring Melissa and building rapport again. We play the age game - whenever I get asked how old I am, I ask them how old they think I am. This is great as many women don't want to guess in case they offend me, which opens a great opportunity to get a playful argument going which allows for some kinesthetic connection (i.e.: touch them on the arm and say "Come on, take a guess"). Tania guesses my age at 25 and I say "fairly close" and turn to Melissa for her opinion. Melissa refuses to give in and guess, but comprimises by whispering to Tania what she thinks. I tell them that I'm 27 and Tania says Melissa was close as well, but won't reveal what she said.

We talked for a while longer and I think I started to lose a bit of rapport with Melissa. In hindsight I expect that she was waiting for me to do something to indicate that I was interested. Maybe I said something stupid, I'm not too sure. Or I might be reading something into the situation that wasn't there.

From there we wandered to the night club next door to check out the "Austin Status: O Powers Party night". I stayed with them for a bit and then left for home at 1:30am.

And then came the weekend - I'll post details of the awesome Friday and Saturday night tomorrow. *** PLEASE NOTE: These articles are my opinions, experiences and observations as I learn more about S.S. and rapport building techniques and their application. I don't claim to be an expert of any sort. Constructive criticism / feedback welcome.

Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 04:07:28 -0400

Subject: ss Status: RO Anyway, we?re getting on fantastically and I get onto my favorite discussion topic at the moment ? the differences between men and women and how we communicate. They absolutely agree that guys are really dumb in relationships and between them make some nice observations that I hadn?t considered: From zenhead@globalnet.co.uk Tue Jun 29 23:06:52 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!nntp.flash .net!howland.erols .net!news-out.supernews.com.MISMATCH!remarQ73!supernews.com!remarQ.com!remarQ69!gxsn.com!not-for-mail From: "Dan Scorpio" zenhead@globalnet.co.uk Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: Transformation from A.F.C. Part 11 Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 03:26:09 +0100 Organization: GXSN Lines: 21 Message-ID: 7lasrc$nfo$3@gxsn.com References: 7l9g41$49aak$2@titan.xtra.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.147.142.42 X-Trace: 930674348 1NNUCNF1G8E2AC393C gxsn.com X-Complaints-To: abuse@gxsn.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:48587 Status: O Sixth Sense wrote in message 7l9g41$49aak$2@titan.xtra.co.nz ...

Part 11 She comes back and sits down and I decide to have some fun - it's time to mirror.

Now I'd been thinking about that tape from the day before and decided to mirror her movements exactly, just to see how much I could get away with.

So we're talking and she crosses her arms, I wait three seconds and do the same. I mirror any tilts of her head, I try to mirror eyebrow raises. When she itches her nose I do the same thing a second or two later. The funniest thing was mirroring her legs Try going for mirroring in 'real time' rather than waiting - forget postures and stuff, go for dynamics (velocity, start & end points, accelerations, etc.) - and just watch what happens. A simple, and powerfully subtle, thing to mirror - and you have to do this in real time - is blinking.

From whoisthis19@my-deja.com Tue Jun 29 23:47:18 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!netnews.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: whoisthis19@my-deja.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: How to Dance Date: Tue, 29 Jun 1999 14:58:53 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Lines: 73 Message-ID: 7lamv5$i35$1@nnrp1.deja.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.175.225.22 X-Article-Creation-Date: Tue Jun 29 14:58:53 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.08 [en] (Win95; I ;Nav) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x41.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 205.175.225.22 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:48581 Status: O Ok here's the deal ... You'll get it this one time and I wont say no more ...

This is for guys with no speaking skills but are able to move. (wheel chairs included) The minute you walk into the club. Do not get a drink. Do not find a seat. Do not walk around. The first table with woman at it that you see. Go to it. No 3 second rule. No thinking. Just go!!! DO IT!!!

Dont check anyone out. NO ONE. Do not worry about gorrillas. Be tottally fearless. Just go at random and ask. The less you know about her the better. I prefer it when thier back is turned and I dont even see her. Just ask - Do you want to dance? If she says no. Ask her GFs then move quickly and immediately to the next table. BOOM BOOM BOOM!!!

Dont waste a second. Time is ticking and youve got ALOT of woman to meet tonight. Keep it up until you get a yes or run out of woman. Some places you'll get a yes every time. Other places you'll strike out 10 times before one says yes. Typically gals that say yes this easily are there to get laid. Youve found her. Now go and get her.

First of all use your hips when you dance. Move your feet but dont look like a chicken walking. Check out what shes doing and do pretty much the same thing. Dont worry about all that macho shit woman love guys that smile and make them happy. Let em know you know how to move your cock.

If you cant feel the rythem - get off de floo!!!

SMILE!!!! Look in her face and SMILE!!!! Make her smile. Make her laugh. Touch her, bump into her on purpose Bump into people ... laugh ... let her know you like to mix in a crowd and are friendly ... Be friendly with everyone even guys. always remeber she is why your out there though and lavish her the special attention she is hungry for.

Get nasty ... Have sex on the floor if you can ... It's the safe sex of the 90s ... Have fun with it!!! It's good clean wholesome fun!!! Wear her out just like you would in bed. Knee in the crotch, lap dancing, down on the floor dirty, touch her breasts, her hips ... ass ...

pussy ... ... ect ... do it a bit covertly at first and work into it. If she gets mad and leaves - she would have never fucked you tonight anyway. NEXT!!!

If you see another babe you want to try later when you ditch this one.

Mirror her ... get eye contact and SMILE!!!!

NEVER miss a slow dance. Asking woman to slow dance is a sure bet BUT remeber you will get ALOT more NOs. These are all the woman who are taken or not wanting a fuck tonight.

Eventually when she gets tired ... LEAD her to a quiet spot to talk about your place or mine. Fuck the life story crap. Fuck the get to know each other crap. If shes danced with you till shes exhausted and did the dirty monkey butt grind with you. It's time to talk about sex, fucking and where to do it. Have fun with it!!!!! She'll need information that you can give her the sex she wants, that your safe with condoms, that you wont go nuts on her later, that its a possible LTR.

Tell her anything she wants to hear but you've got to get her out of this place to go fuck.

Hey Manaic!!! Since your now the guru of the monkey butt dance grind, what's your proven technique?

greg1 - Did you sleep with yourself or ... did you turn yourself down because you was too easy.

Sent via Deja.com https://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

From dc_guy@my-deja.com Wed Jun 30 00:02:44 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!newsfeed.direct.ca!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newsfeed.enteract.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: dc_guy@my-deja.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: pickup lines and seduction in nightclub Date: Wed, 30 Jun 1999 02:42:00 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Lines: 48 Message-ID: 7lc05n$2ah$1@nnrp1.deja.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.65.99.233 X-Article-Creation-Date: Wed Jun 30 02:42:00 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x24.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 63.65.99.233 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:48614 Status: O RULE ***Don't use anytype of pickup line as an approach in a nightclub*** -By using a pickup line your basically saying "Hi, I want to screw you ... and I'm hoping to god that this little line will make you want to do that"

-I've approached tons of girls ((probably over 100)) in nightclubs by using pickup lines. Out of all of girls that I've approached using pickup lines ... I got NOTHING.

I'll save you some time by saying don't use them.

The best I thing I ever got with pickup lines were a few *Smiles* and conversations that started like "Where did you here that one?"

-However, once you've gotten in a conversation by NOT hitting on her ... kid with her about some of the pickup lines that guys use. Just say something like "Isn't it interesting what a wonderful conversation we're having? I mean some of my friends have the hardest time talking to women ... You wouldn't believe some of the pickup lines they try." After you say something like that ... she's going to be curious what your friends use ... and BOOM!! She'll probably ask you to tell her some of their pickup lines ... Just start joking with her and rattle them off ... It's an awesome way to get her thinking sexual thoughts about you.

Stuff like "What FUCKS like a tiger and winks?" and she'll say "What?"

then playfully wink at her. This approach has worked well for me plus it's fun to do.

** ** ******** Hello all, i'm new at this newsgroup since only 1 week.

i want some opinions about approach in nightclub. I'm always a little confused about being very direct in nightclub or start with another SS techniques. So i want to know if a phrase like Ross said : " you're a shining example of genetic perfection" or the clever approach : "do you know that 90% of girls in the place would kill their own mother for look half good as you do" is really good for hit a girl in nighclub ? I think that do that and have in mind that all that is only a game, like chess, you do the first move and with few SS pattern and normal chatting you can have good results.

I'm 25 and like i said, i'm new with SS stuff, i want to try it. i want comments for the beginning of this new trip please :-) Sent via Deja.com https://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

From rem@shell.netmagic.net Sun Jul 11 20:46:15 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!newsfeed.direct.ca!remarQ73!supernews.com!remarQ.com!remarQ69!corp.remarQ.com!rem From: rem@shell.netmagic.net (Robert Maas) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast,alt.support.shyness,alt.romance

Subject: Re: Got any ideas on this???

Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1999 15:07:50 GMT Organization: Posted via RemarQ, https://www.remarQ.com - The Internet's Discussion Network Lines: 22 Message-ID: 931014470.775.23@news.remarQ.com References: Pine.LNX.4.10.9906231628140.21835-100000@ci.aac.uc.pt NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.14.125.12 NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1999 15:07:50 GMT X-Trace: 931014470.775.23 JPXCE.OZN7D0CCE0EC qube-02.us-ca.remarq.com X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@remarQ.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:48929 alt.support.shyness:67492 alt.romance:280847 Status: O The next time you are alone with her hugging for a long time, put your face close to her ear, so you can smell her hair, and just hug in that position for a while. Then very gently brush your lips against her face near her ear, then if she doesn't pull back just leave your lips resting against her cheek as you hug a while longer. Then lift your lips off her cheeks and very lightly touch them other places on her face, but not yet her lips, then leave them resting on her cheek right next to the corner of her mouth. Then after a while, lift your lips off her cheek again and touch them very lightly against the corner of her mouth. At this point if she still seems to like it you can VERY lightly touch your lips against her lips in lots of places, and just keep doing that as long as you're together, or for a long time.

Finally, just rest your lips very gently dead-center against her lips, then gradually let your lips increase pressure against hers until your lips and hers are intertwined, and keep gradually moving together until your teeth are starting to bump, then gradually open your jaws.

If she's still with you when your mouth is moderately open, very gently touch your tongue to whatever she's presenting to you inside your mouth (her closed lips, or her slightly open lips, or her open lips and teeth, or her open lips&teeth and tip of her tongue, or her full open mouth with EvERYTHING touchable.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Sun Jul 11 21:06:41 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!WCG!attmtf!ip.att .net!wn4feed!worldnet.att .net!208.134.241.18!newsfeed.cwix.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: advice on mail to x-girlfriend Lines: 22 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 01 Jul 1999 11:40:06 GMT References: 7lerpi$3h2$1@nnrp1.deja.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990701074006.06501.00006387@ng-fo1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:48719 Status: O This morning I received an email from her saying she has been having a rough time lately having just been dumped by her current boyfriend ..

the line reads "My boyfriend decided to break up with me on the day fo my Birthday. I still love him too much I think. " .. she thn goes on to say he's going away and she hopes he wont stay there and he'll go back to her ..

my questions are: - how long should i wait before replying reply immediately - what should i say/not say in my reply to get me into her thoughts and desires tell her to come over immediately. get your hands on her ASAP - how should i make her curious and want to get (and stay) in contact with me so I can get her into bed ;) feel her up while you are "consoling" her. Fuck her while she's still disoriented from the breakup From nathan@metabork.fr.eu.org Sun Jul 11 21:06:59 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!easynet-fr!buggy.easynet.fr!nathan From: nathan@metabork.fr.eu.org (Nathan SZILARD) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: advice on mail to x-girlfriend Date: 1 Jul 1999 15:16:17 GMT Organization: [Posted via] Easynet France Lines: 27 Message-ID: slrn7nn1ec.rqj.nathan@linuxserver.icommerce-france.com References: 7lerpi$3h2$1@nnrp1.deja.com 19990701074006.06501.00006387@ng-fo1.aol.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.114.83.33 X-Trace: buggy.easynet.fr 930842177 10981 195.114.83.33 (1 Jul 1999 15:16:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynet.fr NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Jul 1999 15:16:17 GMT User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.4 (UNIX) Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:48731 Status: O Yep, exactly, tell her to come over, agree with what she says, don't supplicate, just take what you deserve, fuck her she'll be grateful.

On 01 Jul 1999 11:40:06 GMT, MrSex4uNYC mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d wrote: | This morning I received an email from her saying she has been having a | rough time lately having just been dumped by her current boyfriend ..

| the line reads "My boyfriend decided to break up with me on the day fo | my Birthday. I still love him too much I think. " .. she thn goes on | to say he's going away and she hopes he wont stay there and he'll go | back to her ..

| | my questions are: | - how long should i wait before replying | | reply immediately | | - what should i say/not say in my reply to get me into her thoughts and | desires | | tell her to come over immediately. get your hands on her ASAP | | - how should i make her curious and want to get (and stay) in contact | with me so I can get her into bed ;) | | feel her up while you are "consoling" her. Fuck her while she's still | disoriented from the breakup From anonymous@web.remarq.com Sun Jul 11 21:17:29 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!remarQ73!supernews.com!remarQ.com!remarQ69!WReNclone!WReNphoon3.POSTED!WReN!not-for-mail From: Craig anonymous@web.remarq.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Clifford's Friend Max Organization: https://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here X-Originating-Host: 209.178.128.111 X-Wren-Trace: cDodPSg6Zgchb24YKnZ7c3lpe2llai92bmV1aGp3ejpnbCN1ZS13emdpZnFlK3htLTclJixiAmEbI3s6JXknJiY0ODwl Message-ID: 930872713.27684@www.remarq.com Lines: 127 Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 15:45:10 -0800 NNTP-Posting-Host: 10.0.3.195 X-Trace: WReNphoon3 930872472 10.0.3.195 (Thu, 01 Jul 1999 16:41:12 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 01 Jul 1999 16:41:12 PDT Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:48764 Status: O I will soon send all of your emails to Clifford to be put on the list ... Give me some time cause Im really lazy! In the meantime here is one of his early letters about his friend Max. I think you guys will like it.

For several years now I have known Max. Max gets laid more often than anyone else I know. While he gets the majority of women he goes with through telephone dating lines, he is quite adept at getting women in bars, on the street, pretty much anywhere. Max is not a good looking guy. In fact, he is always lamenting how good looking guys have it so much better than he does. He is short, skinny to the point that some would say scrawny, and his face is not his fortune.

He happens to be fortunate in that his father passed away and left him financially comfortable. It seems that, even though he has various money making business ideas (he has written a book and made an infomercial with the view to being a motivational speaker), with what he has he is able to spend most of his time focused on the pursuit of women.

Now Max is really a one women guy. If he could find a beautiful girl that really liked him, he says he would drop everything else and stay with her.

Like his current girlfriend, for example. He met her on the lines around midnight in the middle of last week. He goes to pick her up (she is apparently right out of a Calvin Klein commercial and in fact does modelling) and she is 6'3". Since Max is 5'6 1/2' this is pretty funny. When he sees how beautiful she is, he figures that she will want nothing to do with him but he plays it cool and they go for a coffee. Around 3 am Max figures he better take her back because she has to be up at 8 am to be at school the next day. But when asked if she has to go back she says "No, I'm having a good time." Well, Max sees the opening but now he lays down a few rules. He let's her know that he's not interested in being just her friend if that means a platonic friend. He tells her that they don't have to have a serious relationship but that it can't be "just friends." Among Max's routine are comments like "I am not 16 years old anymore, I don't work at McDonalds" and "I want what I want when I want it". He is looking for "something more substantial and definitely sexual." Well, she understands and Max takes her back to his place and closes the deal. "Greatest night of my life" he said (but I've heard that from him many times).

Afterwards, she starts to express some regret, he's not really her type, she doesn't know what came over her, she's never done this sort of thing before, maybe it was all a big mistake, etc. Max is greatly disappointed but plays it

cool and tells her "No problem. I am not the jealous or possessive type. I am not going bother you. If you want to see me you have my number" and, crushed and brokenhearted, he takes her home figuring that he will never see her again.

Two days later he is in bed at home and the doorbell rings at 1 a.m. It turns out to be his friend Richard (who never drops in like this). Strangely enough, about an hour later while they are talking, the phone rings. It is her. She can't stop thinking about him and wants to see him again.

They've been seeing each other every day now for the past two weeks. This really goes to show you that you never know what type a girl is going to go for so you have to go for it consistently and congruently.

Max has other techniques which I am picking up in bits and pieces. He always reads the vibes when he meets a girl and if they are not negative (this means that it may not be positive either, but could be neutral) he picks his spots and, while not right away is very sexual in his conversation. He almost always goes for the close the first night. He is very light when he starts with them but sprinkles compliments and is very direct in that the entire conversation is about them going out together. He may tell them right away that he would like to marry them (the way he does it, they know he's not serious about it but it diffuses that unspoken selection process that goes on; it takes the seriousness out of the situation and is an interesting approach. I do whatever I can to avoid any hint of seriousness by not talking about it (which I find often doesn't work, and the undertoe spontaneously develops towards something more serious than I want), but by bringing it up it seems to put it into its proper perspective (don't look at me and consider me as a marriage prospect so quickly, after all, you've just met me; but at the same time I have brought up the subject so maybe it isn't out of the question eventually ... ).

He touches their knee and judges the reaction. He was with this one girl and after there was no resistance to his touching the knee he says to her, "that's a really nice skirt, I wonder what's underneath it" and proceeds to lift it from the back. He claims that you will be surprised how many times women will be very receptive to such advances.

He credits his "don't give a shit attitude" with a lot of his success. Now, don't misunderstand. Max has probably more failures than most and considers women a numbers game. When he meets a good looking woman he expects that she will not be interested in him and that happens a lot.

But as he keeps working on it, it seems that he is successful more than he is not.

Often he will invite a woman over for dinner at his place for the first time they are getting together (this is for someone he has already met but hasn't gotten together with). If she express reservations about coming over to his house because she doesn't know him, he tells her that he will go anywhere she wants but she will have to pay for herself. "You are a very attractive young lady and you can have guys take you anywhere you want and after give them a nice peck on the cheek. I am not going to be made a sucker of. I want to be treated like a man not a mouse." This is perhaps not expressed as smoothly as it needs to be because unless you do this properly the message they get is that if you buy them dinner you expect them to sleep with you (I tried this and learned this lesson pretty quickly!).

I may do an interview with Max soon.

Clifford **** Posted from RemarQ - https://www.remarq.com - Discussions Start Here (tm) **** From miqui21@my-deja.com Sun Jul 11 21:30:17 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal11.airnews .net!uunet!dfw.uu .net!ffx.uu .net!newsfeed.fast .net!howland.erols .net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: The Hypnotist miqui21@my-deja.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: YOU CAN"T HAVE HIM!! PATTERN HERE?

Date: Sat, 03 Jul 1999 02:00:06 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Lines: 53 Message-ID: 7ljqr3$s5a$1@nnrp1.deja.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.161.243.146 X-Article-Creation-Date: Sat Jul 03 02:00:06 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows 98) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x40.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 209.161.243.146 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:48898 Status: O Did an interesting thing with Adam last night. I went home from the CHIN picnic here in Toronto to sleep. Got a phone call from Adam. We have to check this club he say's. I want sleep as i have to work in the morning but he makes it clear it's a birthday party for a fitness model. Can't turn that down. we get there and scope the scene. Idiot boy of course just happens to know some of them and proceeds into deep conversations after introducing me. I spot something across the room that is so 'delish'. I watch her for awhile and notice the grease studs striking out one after another.

I get this silly idea in my head that has plaqued me for awhile on NG hits. I want to take it one step further. I find Adam who has his tongue in some strange girls mouth. I tell him my idea and after some cajoling he agrees. What i wanted him to do was walk over and start talking to her but not hit on her. He wouldn't anyway after what i told him i had seen her do for the last half hour.

He just started talking about her modelling carrer which she readily talked about and asked him about his as she had seen some of his stuff.

Then he called me over and introduced me as his Hypnotist friend. I said hi was nice and left. After i walked away he put my plan into action. Poor guy he said and when she asked what my problem was he said whatever you do if you find him even slightly attractive don't waste your time. She told him no offence but he does nothing for me. Good he said because he gets hit on constantly by hot women and he is really getting tired of it. All they want is his money. Oh she said he's rich?

Well off, said Adam and mildly famous. Interesting she said and then they continued their conversation.

I came by her at least two hours later and asked if she had seen Adam?

No but i am sure he will be back why don't you talk to me until he gets here? I of course stayed and talked cause thats what i wanted all along. We yakked for about fifteen minutes with her trying to be sneaky and get info on me as to who i was, what i did on the side, where i had been, do i travel often. I was infuriatingly ambiguous about everything as it's all lies anyway. Adam comes back inserts himself into the conversation and gives her a disaproving look which she returns with that 'what' look. I tell Adam that i am leaving because i am bored and to call me tommorow. She say's that we were having such an interesting conversation and the night is young, stay stay. No i am really bored no offense. Well here is my number call me and we can continue this where there are no distractions. Mabey i say and take my leave with the number.

Here it is boy's. What if anything do you guy's think is going to happen. Ill wait three days before i call her and do coffee.

- All Good Things Come To Those Who WORK FOR IT.

Sent via Deja.com https://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Sun Jul 11 21:44:06 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: Diving right in.

Lines: 17 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 04 Jul 1999 14:45:58 GMT References: 7lnhqg$ie9$3@gxsn.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990704104558.06505.00007097@ng-fo1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:49049 Status: O a) tell her you've got enough friends & you have something else on your mind for her yeah. I don't have time for any more friends. If she's not sexually interested in me, then fuck it ... BYE!

b) elicit the values of the woman (A) you are interested in. Then, invent another woman (B), tell A you want to seduce her and ask her what she thinks the best ways to go about it are. Use all the info you get on A herself.

wow brilliant strategy. should work perfectly too. I was telling a chick the other day about another one. In attempting to "step into" the other chick's situation with me, she gave me insight into herself. all she could do was interpret how SHE would feel in that situation. I learned a lot about her by accident :) I will definitely use this technique.

From danielt@primus.com.au Sun Jul 11 23:49:34 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newshub.northeast.verio .net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.syd.connect.com.au!nsw.nntp.telstra .net!nsw.nnrp.telstra .net!not-for-mail Message-ID: 37805A93.48AA413C@primus.com.au From: Daniel danielt@primus.com.au X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CONNECTPCW (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: How do we do This?

References: 7lnnmq$k7f$3@gxsn.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Internet Primus Cache-Post-Path: diddley.primus.com.au!unknown@ras784.ports.syd.primus.com.au X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see https://www.nntpcache.org/) Lines: 94 Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 17:11:16 +1000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.134.0.92 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telstra.net X-Trace: nsw.nnrp.telstra.net 931158587 203.134.0.92 (Mon, 05 Jul 1999 17:09:47 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 1999 17:09:47 EST Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:49199 Status: O If there was a spare chair there, i would come up on my own and say this "Do you mind if i make myself comfortable?"

They say "no"

I sit down.

Then i say.. "I kept wondering what you guys were talking about"

"Got any good gos?"

etc. etc.

introduce yourself and dont make any obvious pu attempts in first 5 mins then go with what u know like i said the biggest problem is the fear of being rejected and having to walk back on your own and looking like a loser in front of your mates.

If you are on your own.. its not so bad coz there is noone to judge you xept maybe the other girls who noticed you being rejected but if u r with mates all of you must approach together.

That way noone feels like a loser.

Ummm ... another way Basically you can just come up to girls and say "I am fucking bored and i am sick of standing up"

and they will usually ask "why?"

u can say "My friend hasnt shown up the bloody loser"

then u can continue with whatever ...

i done that works well.

I think that you only get rejected if you make it look like a pick up attempt.

You will never get rejected if you just come up and say the lines i written above.

In other words, rejection is Impossible if there is no Hit.

Just always make sure the girls have a spare chair at the table.

Otherwise you do look like u r hitting badly.

Dan Scorpio wrote: This was an observed botch up [I had fuck all to do with it - see below] of possible interest to the ng, hence Ii publish it.

Scene is late on in a UK ale house (& to understand some of what follows, you need to know that UK ale houses are divided into two separate areas, Lounge - the den of courting/married couples & the 'Lounge Lizards', and Tap Room or Bar - den of the, mainly male, 'Bar Rats'.) It's fairly quiet & suddenly, from nowhere, these 3 HB's (8/7/6) appear in the lounge. Two (8/6) come to the bar, the other sits in the remotest possible corner of the place.Dan, lurking nearby & perfectly placed to 'innocently' move in alongside at the bar, does an autocheck out the window for bf's, before deciding that at about 25ish, they're far too young The women get served, join their friend & start yakking in the corner. Then the fun begins.

Five minutes later, having caught the scent, three bar rats arrive from nowhere (tut, tut boys, wake up - with the 3s rule you could have been in by now), take station at the bar in the lounge & intermittently eye the HB's whilst discussing how they're going to crack it. Dan, having had previous bad experience of giving advice, keeps mouth firmly shut and observes. Here are snatches of convo I caught: 'You go over, introduce yourself and I'll follow.' 'Nah. I can't approach threesomes. That's really hard.' (turns to shyest, but best looking guy) 'Why don't you go? You're Mr Good Looks. Tell 'em you're collecting glasses.' 'If you think I'm walking over there on my own, you can fuck off.' 'I'll come with you.' 'You can still fuck off.' 'Anybody else got any ideas?' [I nearly told him then, but I bit my lip. This wasn't an easy one - a 40' walk with what they were up to totally exposed & a good chance of being knocked back - they needed a bit of inventiveness.] And so they went on discussing, not very creatively, how they were going to crack it. And the clock ticked on and on. In the end, they just gave up & went back into the bar.

Lesson: the 3s rule might have given them a chance.

What would you have done?

[Wrt how I would have done it with a group of guys approaching the difficult remote target of 3 sitting HB's, well I think it would have required a sacrifice. The sacrificial lamb, who would need to be a good bullshitter, would be sent in first with instructions to talk to them about religion or some such, and to PERSIST. The other guys would then come across to the ladies rescue, apologising profusely for their friend's behaviour - 'there's no harm in him, but he's always like this when he's had a drink' - and then taking the convo from there. Once rapport is established, the 'religion freak' can be rehabilitated & his behaviour revealed as ploy to gain access.

NB, since first impressions count, the sacrifice may never be fully rehabilitated in the HB's eyes, hence he must be genuinely be prepared to sacrifice his chances.] - Hello, below are my net details ...

my home page - https://home.primus.com.au/danielt my email address - mailto:danielt@primus.com.au Regards, Daniel :) From zenhead@globalnet.co.uk Mon Jul 12 00:27:28 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal11.airnews .net!204.70.114.158.MISMATCH!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!195.161.2.170!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!easynet-tele!easynet .net!remarQ-uK!rQdQ!supernews.com!remarQ.com!remarQ69!gxsn.com!not-for-mail From: "Dan Scorpio" zenhead@globalnet.co.uk Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: Success!! Movie Pattern ...

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 17:45:42 +0100 Organization: GXSN Lines: 172 Message-ID: 7mal0r$c0s$3@gxsn.com References: 37812095@news3.us.ibm.net 378807a1@news.glasscity.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.147.163.95 X-Trace: 931714907 1NNUCNF1GA35FC393C gxsn.com X-Complaints-To: abuse@gxsn.com X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:50147 Status: O All I can think of is a 'pattern' to do with movies (I actually made it up on the hoof) I used about a month ago on two women when they asked me what I did for a living. In reply, I told them I was a producer of porno films & got the talk (very easily) moving into sexual imagery from there. 'What kind of porno films?' one of them asks. So I ask how many kinds are there & then add to it I make the kind with licking and spurting, etc, etc. Look it up in Deja news.

If that's not what Casey referred to, then he's got me stumped.

Steven E. Wolfe wrote in message 378807a1@news.glasscity.net ...

So what was this incredible movie pattern you used on this HB'd woman.

Casey mgurapa@hotmail.com wrote in message news:37812095@news3.us.ibm.net ...

Hey guys ... after failing mostly and only getting kisses and stuff, I finally succeeded with an HB. And she wants to see me again and spend more time with me. Well, more on that later. Also, I want to thank Dan Scorpio for his movie pattern, because it worked! I'm now starting to understand the concept of patterns and how to use them effectivley.

This past weekend, one of my friends got married, and I was in the wedding.

This is a good friend from high school, but the wedding was basically his friends from college. I really didn't know anyone, except for the groom, bride, some high school friends, and the groom's family. I really didn't even know the other guys in the wedding. So I figured, since I didn't know anyone, I would go all out and really try out this stuff from the newsgroup, and even if I made an ass of myself, it really didn't matter, because I didn't really know anyone there. So my confidence was quite high.

Okay, this is how it went down. Before the wedding, we were ushering people into the church , and I noticed this extremely hot girl. I didn't get any vibes or signs from her, but I decided to make my move anyways. We were standing in the church, waiting to escort people to their seats, and this really really beautiful girl walks in with her friends. They're standing around for a bit ... her friends go off to talk to other people and she's sort of standing there by herself. I had my camera with me, and I got this idea from Mystery's digital camera thing, and I decided to take a picture of her.

When she noticed me taking the picture, she looked confused and tried to move out of the way. Then, she comes up to me and asks if I was taking a picture of her. She wasn't sure if I was taking a picture of the church, or her or some other people. Here, I told her, "You look really good, and I wanted to take a picture." She laughs a bit and goes ... "Stop!?!" We talk for a bit, and I find out that she is a friend of the groom. As we talk for a bit, her friends come over, and we escort the girls to their seats.

While we're dancing, she asks me if I'm seeing anyone. Here, I debate on whether I should go with the phantom gf thing, but I decided to play it straight and told her no. She kinda looked surprised and asked me if I thought I was a "playboy" or something. And she thought I was lying to her. I told her, that I just graduated from college and my school is known for its academics and there aren't too many beautiful girls. And the really pretty ones develop an attitude, because everybody and their mothers hit on them. And I said, "Besides, I have a better ass than most of the girls on my campus." She says "Oh, my god ... " and laughs at this, and I follow up by saying, "I even think I have a better ass than you." Now, she is laughing out really hard. I must admit, I really impressed myself here. Confidence is the key ...

She

just sat there and let me talk so I ran the movie pattern offered here by Dan Scorpio. As I was running the movie pattern, Jen (the HB) looked like she had absolutely no idea what I was telling her. Things that I was saying, just seemed to go through her. I know I goofed up with the patterns, but the effect was simply amazing.

Now the reception is almost over, and people are starting to come out of the country club, and she asks me where I was staying for the night. I tell her that I planned on going back to the groom's house and just crashing there and was gonna take off in the morning. She tells me that her and her friends got a room and that I should come party with them and I could sleep in their room.

And a lot of the people from the wedding are also staying at the same motel, so there should be a lot of people partying. I say okay, and get a ride to the motel. When I get there, there are 3 other girls ... 4 of them are sharing a room. So I tell her that this is not going to work, and I was getting a room for myself. So basically I get a room, we go and see some people, then Jen comes back with me, and she pretty much lets me do anything I wanted.

Awesome!

And get this, around 3 AM, there is knock on my door. I answer the door in my boxers and it's another girl from the wedding, looking for me. She sees Jen and says something like, "What am I doing here ... " and she apologizes and says that she didn't know I had company. Man ... I have to be in more weddings ...

Anyways, I'm convinced that SS works. I am planning on buying the home course. And to non-believers, I will say that SS is working for ME. I can't speak for anyone else. And that's all the proof I need for ME.

Well anyways, Jen called me today. She wants to come up and visit me this weekend. I told her it was okay with me, since I am not going to turn down a fuck with a beautiful girl. But from our conversation, she seems like she's looking for more here. She told me that she is casually dating someone, but it's not serious. But, I feel like I'm just starting to learn SS and on my way to banging a lot of HB's, and now this beautiful girl comes into the equation. I kinda like this girls too ... I mean ... beautiful ... but she slept with me the first night I met her. You guys understand what I'm trying to say here?

Well, I'm on my way ... and thanks to all the posters in the group. I'm learning alot.

From m1orphius@aol.comFCKU Mon Jul 12 00:30:27 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news-peer.gip .net!news.gsl .net!gip .net!portc01.blue.aol.com!spamz.news.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: m1orphius@aol.comFCKU (M1orphius) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: A Challenge Lines: 26 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 06 Jul 1999 05:20:18 GMT Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990706012018.20203.00011091@ng-fv1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:49356 Status: O Here's a way I challenge women all the time ...

ME:"I know what just about every woman wants. They may not admit it but just about all of them want it"

HER: oh yeah, what's that? (Usually said very sarcastically) ME: Almost every woman wants the Romance Novel Relationship I have yet to have a woman tell me I am wrong in fact everyone has said yes your right, that's what they want.

This statement does some interesting things. It sets you apart from the crowd cus you actually DO know what women want. And it sets you up as being desirable as well as making them want to get to know more about you since your probably the only one that she has ever met that actually knows what she wants.

A lil bit of literary trivia ... I read some where that 70% of all books sold in America are Romance Novels. Guess who reads them ... Not men. I most guy have never even picked one up. I suggest you do. Not only will you read some really steamy stuff you will also get an insight into what women are looking for as far as romance goes.

M1orphius@aol.com - "There is no spoon"

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Mon Jul 12 00:51:51 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!dispose.news.demon .net!demon!newsfeed.nacamar.de!newsfeed.nacamar.de!howland.erols .net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: 3-some question NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 09 Jul 1999 21:59:29 GMT References: 7m5nu0$kvm$1@nnrp1.deja.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990709175929.15238.00001214@ng-fz1.aol.com Lines: 65 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:49883 Status: O

Got a quiestion for you NYC. For quite awhile I've been thinking possibly a BJ is a fairly easy sex thing to get from a woman.

I see it this way If a chick has been around the block a couple of times, she has either sucked dick or had the idea presented to her. plus, girls are trained to do it by their girlfriends from an early age ... look at all the 80's movies showing high school girls in the lunch room gagging on carrots :) They have all had a man that insisted on them sucking his dick OR have heard this story from their girlfriends. the CONCEPT is no big deal to them. the problem is presentation.

if you present the idea to them as "you suck my dick" you will have ALL TYPES OF PROBLEMS WITH THEM unless you already established that you are the master and she is the slave and what you say goes or she is OUT THE DOOR! but I'm talking about general situations.

what I do is get them to admit and META-STATE into sucking their ex-boyfriend's (or current boyfriend's) dick. once a chick admits that she has sucked dick before, she can't be upset if you request it of her ... assuming you are making her feel good at the time you request it.

a favorite saying of ours as kids running around after chicks in the NYC streets was something to the effect of "there goes a girl with a kid ... SHE CAN'T SAY SHE DOESN'T FUCK!" it's not exactly on-topic, but you see what I mean here. and yes ... girls WOULD tell us they didn't fuck when we would approach them :) If you ask her BEFORE she admits to it, you are somehow calling her a slut or a hooker. If you ask her after, she already knows that you know she sucks dick, so to her, MENTALLY it's no big deal ... that is, if she likes you at all :) I prefer the monkey butt position but BJs are so easy to arrange. I've gotten some very easy BJs in my years of doing this but I've never really paid any attention to this until I saw the movie Vegas and in the movie the guy never fucked gals he'd just have em give him BJs and it was easy for him to score this.

some chicks use blowjobs as a way out of fucking. it is strange to me that they would rather take a dick in their mouths instead of their pussies :/ with some chicks it's a fear of pregnancy. some others believe there is some difference in how they make a man come that means something. many times, chicks know that if they don't do SOMETHING, they will never hear from this guy again, so instead of spreading their legs, they get on their knees.

Anyway it seems many of your posts gear towards getting BJs. What's your take on it? Is it easier to a get a BJ than a lay? I think so. Still I always shoot for the fuck cause I like that better. New can of worms here.

greg1 it's definitely easier to score head than fucking, simply because of the amount of preparation needed for each. to fuck her, she does a whole lot of undressing and prepping etc etc. for a BJ, I unzip my pants, and it's on :) also, I find that once a chick is handling your dick, flesh to flesh, she'll put it in her mouth if you gently lead her to it. don't push her too hard, or that SLUT thing kicks in. just let her know that you enjoy what she is doing and you want her to take you over the edge :) look at it this way until you come in her mouth, there is no difference between her sucking on your dick and sucking on your fingers. I personally don't put my fingers in chick's mouths :) but the point is the same. flesh is flesh. if she'll kiss your chest, she'll kiss your dick.

From whoisthis19@my-deja.com Mon Jul 12 01:02:27 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: whoisthis19@my-deja.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: Advice Needed from the Experts Date: Wed, 07 Jul 1999 19:11:34 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Lines: 73 Message-ID: 7m08oq$li1$1@nnrp1.deja.com References: 7lu9pe$uig$1@nnrp1.deja.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.175.225.5 X-Article-Creation-Date: Wed Jul 07 19:11:34 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.08 [en] (Win95; I ;Nav) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x37.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 205.175.225.5 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:49593 Status: O I've had little luck with a friend unless I get physical with her. The blow off games ... the pleading ... ect ... ect.. didnt work. Getting physical has worked for me in the past and moved the relationship to another spectrum. Do not treat her like a friend when you get physical.

Do not discuss things with her. Take responsibilty for moving the relationship to another realm. If she runs ... pursue her ... if she backs out - persist ... Be a fucking jerk - not a friend. I've had this work a couple times and afterwards I lost all interest in her and she fell in love with me. Wierd huh? I have yet to have to pleading, manipulation and posturing work. You can talk all you want. I'd say trick her to be alone with you on a bed and just fuck her. She's your friend and you should easily be able to get her do this. Probably secretly in her private heart - action and passion - not words is what she's hoping for from her friend.

greg1 In article 7lu9pe$uig$1@nnrp1.deja.com , drsm00thh@my-deja.com wrote: Gentlemen I have a problem here. I have always had a pattern (which i am breaking) In which I pursue a girl, then give her too much and pretty much get dicked around. I usually blow her off almost completly and they usually return and then kiss my ass. I think ray calls that a returning fox. My problem is this, I got tired of being just friends with a chick, made a move and went for it. I basically caught her off guard and she says she needed some time. Unfortuntaly for me that included 2 more weeks of I dont not sures, etc, and asking about who im dating etc. I see the mistakes there, Its been around a month and a half since ive really talked to her again. My question is this, when you cut a girl off like this, especially in the sense of one you have been friends with for 4 yrs, when she come up again (returning fox again i guess), and asks why are you blowing me off do you explain it or say I dont know what your talking about. Ive heard 2 schools of thought, one saying play dumb and let your actions speak, and the other telling it like it is. What option do you think is the best? I think explaining it seems to show too much thought and like your still hung up on the thing (showing interest again), but the positive aspects are you tell her she fucked up and is now paying the price, thoughts on both approaches?

A second question for anyone in the ever in the same sitautions, when they come back how do you get over the bitterness that they jerked you around? Often when you do turn the tables you just dump them back.

Does anyone actually get over it and avoid the same mistakes they made the first time?

Gracias Gentlemen DrSmooth Sent via Deja.com https://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

- Did you sleep with yourself or ... did you turn yourself down because you was too easy.

Sent via Deja.com https://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

From SixthSense@xtra.co.nz Mon Jul 12 01:15:29 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!lsanca1-snf1!news.gtei .net!news.netgate.net.nz!news.xtra.co.nz!not-for-mail From: "Sixth Sense" SixthSense@xtra.co.nz Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: THE BEGINNING Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 10:51:36 +1200 Organization: Customer of Telecom Internet Services Lines: 75 Message-ID: 7m90h0$4papc$1@titan.xtra.co.nz References: 931469627.330.79@news.remarQ.com 19990708193425.23146.00012547@ng-bh1.aol.com 7m5hda$lku$3@gxsn.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 210-55-149-211.dialup.xtra.co.nz Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: titan.xtra.co.nz 931661152 5024556 210.55.149.211 (11 Jul 1999 02:45:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@xtra.co.nz NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Jul 1999 02:45:52 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:50087 Status: O 2) do some recce. Find out where the kind of women you like are AS MORE OR LESS STATIONARY TARGETS, what they are doing/buying & then sit down for a minute or two & figure out some appropriate approaches (openers AND follow ups: the latter are important in order to avoid stalls)

I can give an example from yesterday when I was in a mall and stopped to watch part of the James Bond movie "Golden-eye" on a TV in an appliance store. There were 3 salespeople - 1 guy and 2 women.

First the guy comes up and tries to start the sales chat. I shut him down with the "just looking - I'll come find you if I want something" line.

After a few minutes the blonde comes over and asks me when I want the TV delivered. I tell her I'm just watching and we start to chat a bit about DVD players etc, until she mentions something about her husband, so I gently closed her down and told her I'd just keep watching a bit longer and "come find her if I need something" (that's a great line - you've specifically told them you will come find them if interested, so they have to leave you alone from that point onwards).

Anyway, a few minutes later the red head come across and mentions that some time she's going to have to get the movie out and watch the entire thing as she's only ever seen bits in the store. We watch the film and joke about the film and what she likes, what she does etc for about 15-20 minutes. Good rapport building. Eventually she says "I guess I better go look after some customers". As she walked away I called out to her and said "Thanks for coming to the movies with me!", which got a laugh and a smile. And she'll remember me the next time I go in there because of it.

The point is that it's easy to start conversations with women if we pick the right situations. Personally I still turn into a bubbling mess when I try to physically stop someone going somewhere and try to start an intelligent discussion. When they're stationary it's a lot easier and a great deal less threatening to them.

Some other suggestions for places to start conversations.

Checkout operators are great - they sit there bored for hours on end. See if you can get talking excitedly about what they're going to do when they finish. "Are you going out? Who with? Where? That sounds like a lot of fun!"

etc. I've had a couple of situations where the conversation has naturally progressed to inviting myself out to go along with them.

Go shopping with women friends. They won't believe you want to do it, but insist - they'll appreciate it. You'll end up in a heap of women's clothing stores and can chat to the staff while your friends try stuff on. It's easy to start a conversation along the lines of "Wow, I bet you must be tempted to spend all your money on the clothes here, right?". They'll start the tale of woe about how they feel great looking good but they have no money because of where they work ... :-) Also, if your friends model clothes for you, go grab a staff member and get her to help you give feedback to your friends.

I've found this works well because often women never entirely trust a guys opinon alone.

Any woman who is working somewhere and looks a little bored. Just go up and say it - "Am I right in thinking you look a little bored? Not the most exciting day at work, huh?" or "You look a little bit sad - why is that?".

Often if you've correctly identified what they're feeling they immediately start sharing with you and expressing how they feel, what they'd rather be doing etc. It's easy to ask further questions from there "Well, if you could do any job, what would you like to do?", "What did you do before this?", "Where are you from?" etc.

You still get burn outs, but the chances of getting an intelligent, relaxed conversation are much better.

Sixth From alfa@melb.alexia.net.au Mon Jul 12 01:24:27 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!not-for-mail From: alfa@melb.alexia.net.au (Glenn Durden) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: Supplicate ME NOW !!!!

Date: 8 Jul 1999 11:25:35 GMT Organization: Disorganised, as usual ...

Lines: 28 Message-ID: 931426085.976543@cockatoo.alexia.net.au References: 37931c39.27743289@news.freeserve.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: cockatoo.alexia.net.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: perki.connect.com.au 931433135 18260 203.14.183.3 (8 Jul 1999 11:25:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@connect.com.au NNTP-Posting-Date: 8 Jul 1999 11:25:35 GMT X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.9 (Released Version) (x86 32bit) Cache-Post-Path: cockatoo.alexia.net.au!unknown@ppp29.alexia.net.au Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:49736 Status: O In article 37931c39.27743289@news.freeserve.co.uk , nadeemmalikb@REMOVEEhotmail.com says ...

i.e.

'Hey you don't have you got a good music tape you can lend me, do you ?

Tons more things to ask for depending on the person, but music tapes are a good one that I use. Anything, will do change for a phone, or something not tangible, i.e. ask them to do something for you, Its probably not the ASKING that does it, but the fact that did a favor for you.

One of the things I've learnt in psychology (*) this year is that people who do a favour for you are more likely to think better of you ... and more likely to do something else for you in the future.

Apparently the thinking goes: "why did I do that favour for them? I must like them.

I wouldnt do a favour for someone I didnt like, would I?"

Unconsciously of course..

cheers ...

* I'll let you guess why I chose to do that subject.

From whoisthis19@my-deja.com Mon Jul 12 01:26:18 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!nntp.flash .net!mercury.cts.com!news.he .net!newsfeed.enteract.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: whoisthis19@my-deja.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: mall encounters Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 15:44:21 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Lines: 42 Message-ID: 7m2h0i$eog$1@nnrp1.deja.com References: 37842070.95F188ED@geocities.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 205.175.225.5 X-Article-Creation-Date: Thu Jul 08 15:44:21 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.08 [en] (Win95; I ;Nav) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x28.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 205.175.225.5 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:49768 Status: O Standing in check out lines is killer action.

You need a mode or frame of mind to work with that makes all your PU attempts seem natural. First set a goal to be very out going and talk to everyone and exclude no-one in the talk. I do best when I am with a friend and include all bystanders in our conversations. I'll say things like; "Why don't they have a TV in checkout lines?" and then include everyone in the conversation. From this frame of just talking to people you can focus on what ever HB pops up this way. So rather than pickng

targets and shooting for them. I just talk to everyone and nab the HBs that stumble into it.

My buddie tells me that food courts can be treated just like singles bars. I dont have the nerve yet to say; "Mind if I join you?"

greg1 In article 37842070.95F188ED@geocities.com , -Sailor Boy- rajman@geocities.com wrote: Hey guys, Any tips on what to use when approaching a woman at a mall?

Where to go after a phrase like "excuse me, you know you have the most beautiful eyes"

and please don't tell me to say " so u come here often" ;-) Rick btw I will post my mall outing soon!!

- Did you sleep with yourself or ... did you turn yourself down because you was too easy.

Sent via Deja.com https://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

From sandworm@mediaone.net Mon Jul 12 01:26:53 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!24.130.1.14!lsnws01.we.mediaone .net!clnws01.we.mediaone.net.POSTED!sandworm From: sandworm@mediaone.net (Ross Jeffries) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: mall encounters Message-ID: sandworm-0807992031490001@we-24-130-80-104.we.mediaone.net References: 37842070.95F188ED@geocities.com Organization: Sargy Is God X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 Lines: 44 Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 20:31:49 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.130.80.104 X-Trace: clnws01.we.mediaone.net 931490860 24.130.80.104 (Thu, 08 Jul 1999 20:27:40 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 20:27:40 PDT Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:49833 Status: O In article 37842070.95F188ED@geocities.com , -Sailor Boy- rajman@geocities.com wrote: Hey guys, Any tips on what to use when approaching a woman at a mall?

Where to go after a phrase like "excuse me, you know you have the most beautiful eyes"

and please don't tell me to say " so u come here often" ;-) Rick btw I will post my mall outing soon!!

I've picked up LOTS of women at outdoor malls ... Santa Monica's Third Street Promenade being a prime example.

Some of my favorite lines: Excuse me ... but has anyone ever told you, you have the PERFECT hip to waist ratio?

(This always gets a laugh and then they want me to explain what it means ... btw, hip to waist ratio is an almost universal male standard of beauty that we measure women by ... ideal is .8 to .82..absolute size of the woman is less important then the relative size of hip to waist.) (to a woman who is obviously in shape) You have athlete written all over you..what's your sport?

Has anyone ever told you ... (pause) you're a shining example of genetic perfection?

Do you do a spiritual discipline like yoga or meditation? Because you have an amazing energy.

- Get Laid NOW!

Ask me how!

https://www.seduction.com Free Newsletters and Real Audio files!

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Mon Jul 12 01:32:02 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!netnews.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: pool babe Lines: 26 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 08 Jul 1999 11:40:27 GMT References: 378435D5.858D2DB3@hotmail.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990708074027.13015.00000007@ng-bk1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:49738 Status: O Me: "Yes, it is very quiet. It is a lot nicer then my last apartment complex. There the walls were so thin and above me lived this newly wed couple!"

Her: "HA HA Oh yes, I know what you mean!"

Me: "and I had to listen to that!"

Her: "ha ha, oh yes, I have heard stories about people living next to newly wed couples, or a woman who had her boyfriend over. yep"

Me: "Yes, and when you are lying there all alone, it is really hard to take."

Her: "hehe, I know."

Me: "Yeah, it makes you kinda jealous."

Her: just a smile Then she asks me my name. hehe I know, it was not really a "pattern", but hey, I'm learning.

fuck patterns! you did an excellent job of turning around a bullshit (by your own design) conversation into a PERFECT QUOTE!

you can't be held at fault for your "neighbors fucking loud" you even looked like the VICTIM in this case :) she even EMPATHIZED with you and agreed with you!

you could have taken it even further, but you did really well for a first attempt. just always look out for ops like that to go directly from fluff to sex-talk :) From bjornbear43@hotmail.com Mon Jul 12 01:32:21 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!hub1.ispnews.com!news13.ispnews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: 378555F1.4B14A486@hotmail.com From: bjorn bjornbear43@hotmail.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: pool babe References: 378435D5.858D2DB3@hotmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 77 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.6.175.146 X-Trace: news13.ispnews.com 931484816 207.6.175.146 (Thu, 08 Jul 1999 21:46:56 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 21:46:56 EDT Date: Thu, 08 Jul 1999 21:52:49 -0400 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:49812 Status: O David, Good work again! You answered a question I was going to put to the newsgroup. Whether or not to wait until you get some eye contact or body language from an HB before you approach. Good luck with the 21 year old Asian HB.

David Shade wrote: So I go to our apartment complex pool yesterday looking to chat up some young lovelies. This time I decide to try making up patterns on the fly using Ross' "themes" within a "conversational framework."

I spot this lovely 21 year old Asian woman with a beautiful ass and long legs. Besides, the lounge near her is empty. She is tanning her back with her eyes closed. In order not to startle her, I use a deep soft voice to politely ask if anyone is using this lounge chair. She says "No" so I take a seat. I say "We have been having beautiful weather here lately" and she says "Yes, and not too much humidity." OK, she seams like she might not be opposed to some light conversation, so I do some small talk. Our fluff conversation is going well. We talk about how the sun feels so good on the skin and how it then feels so good to go for a dip in the pool to cool off. I take special care of my tonality.

She turns over and faces me. I complement her on her nice tan. She takes the compliment well so I compliment her on her nice skin. She then compliments me on my skin. Now that is funny. Instead of saying "thank you" I say "That is a very nice thing for you to say. You are a very sweet person." She smiles really big and says "Thank you." I jokingly ask her, with devilish tonality "Are the type of woman who goes into the water only up to her neck so as not to get her hair wet, or are you the type of woman who jumps in all the way and gets it all wet?"

hehe. She shyly laughs and admits she tries to keep her hair up. Then we talk about how this is such a nice apartment complex, many amenities, and very quiet. I get an idea:

Me: "Yes, it is very quiet. It is a lot nicer then my last apartment complex. There the walls were so thin and above me lived this newly wed couple!"

Her: "HA HA Oh yes, I know what you mean!"

Me: "and I had to listen to that!"

Her: "ha ha, oh yes, I have heard stories about people living next to newly wed couples, or a woman who had her boyfriend over. yep"

Me: "Yes, and when you are lying there all alone, it is really hard to take."

Her: "hehe, I know."

Me: "Yeah, it makes you kinda jealous."

Her: just a smile Then she asks me my name. hehe I know, it was not really a "pattern", but hey, I'm learning.

After a half hour of conversation, I use a variation of Ross' close when she says: Her: "I have to go. It was very nice to have met you David. I hope we will meet here again soon."

Me: "I would like that. But, if we miss each other, how can we arrange to meet over a cup of coffee?"

Her: "Do you know ____ coffee shop?"

Me: "Yes."

Her: "Well, why don't we meet here on Saturday and then go there?"

Me: "Good idea."

Her: "What time is good for you?"

Me: "Noon"

Her: "OK, I will see you here this Saturday at noon!"

And this chick was less then half my age. This would never have happened if I had ignored her, or stood around waiting for signals. She had her eyes closed. I had to go up to her and talk to her. Once I did that, I was able to continue interesting conversation on a theme befitting our particular situation.

This would not have happened online. By going to the pool, and going right up to her, I got a meeting for coffee in just a half hour. And I already have a close in person view of what she looks like "almost"

naked. :-) David Shade From mystery@idirect.com Mon Jul 12 01:35:39 1999 From: "mystery" mystery@idirect.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: MYSTERY: this is a post I typed and forgot to post til now (as I was offline at the time) Date: Thu, 8 Jul 1999 06:55:01 -0400 Lines: 32 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: ts7-40t-2.idirect.com Message-ID: 3784827d@nemo.idirect.com X-Trace: 8 Jul 1999 06:50:37 -0400, ts7-40t-2.idirect.com Organization: via Internet Direct Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!cyclone.news.idirect.com!island.idirect.com!nemo.idirect.com!ts7-40t-2.idirect.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:49726 Status: O I went with my niece to the hospital for her turn at the tonsil removal thing. poor girl age 8. wont bother you with normal details but while in the waiting room I see a girl (way babe great tits I mean hot tits wow and very nice body with long great hair) on the waiting park bench outside. I grab my dig cam and head down there hoping my sister would watch me through the window as I get this girl. My sister knows me for what I do and just thinks Im a shmuck and wonders what the girls see in me but she knows they all fall for my charming ways. so i head down there and when I get there ... see is gone.

thats the story. I like this story because I got off my ass and went down there going through the entire nervous thing and chose a good opener to attempt and commit to and thought about the followup conversation. Didnt use any of that but at least I tried. I feel good for not allowing it to pass up without even attempting.

MYSTERY another thought: thinking back (actually I made a list of the 80 some odd girls I enjoyed) I noticed that most of them were KISS CLOSES. Very few # closes lead to relationships. This I believe means something. Maybe the kiss close should be attempted 80%+ of the time.

hmmm.

ok, verrified the list again and yes KISS CLOSES are better BY FAR. Also, the KISS CLOSE girls were on average alot longer term than the phone # lame closes.

oh and KISS to me means tongue. not a peck.

From davidshade@hotmail.com Mon Jul 12 01:52:24 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!howland.erols .net!nntp.abs .net!newshub2.home.com!newshub1.home.com!news.home.com!news.rdc1.mi.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: 37862509.DA8F2604@hotmail.com From: David Shade davidshade@hotmail.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: My homepage Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 7 Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 16:42:12 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.2.75.114 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news.rdc1.mi.home.com 931538532 24.2.75.114 (Fri, 09 Jul 1999 09:42:12 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 09 Jul 1999 09:42:12 PDT Organization: @Home Network Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:49864 Status: O I finally finished my web site. Check it out.

https://24.2.75.114:69/ David Shade From danielt@primus.com.au Mon Jul 12 02:06:12 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal11.airnews .net!uunet!dfw.uu .net!chi.uu .net!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!intgwlon.nntp.telstra .net!nsw.nnrp.telstra .net!not-for-mail Message-ID: 37875B56.FD93172D@primus.com.au From: Daniel danielt@primus.com.au X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CONNECTPCW (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Strategy.

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: Internet Primus Cache-Post-Path: diddley.primus.com.au!unknown@ras1133.ports.syd.primus.com.au X-Cache: nntpcache 2.3.3 (see https://www.nntpcache.org/) Lines: 66 Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 00:40:23 +1000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.134.0.92 X-Complaints-To: abuse@telstra.net X-Trace: nsw.nnrp.telstra.net 931617531 203.134.0.92 (Sun, 11 Jul 1999 00:38:51 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 00:38:51 EST Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:49982 Status: O To have sex with a girl you must..

1) appear confident and in control. (CONTROL/ATTRACTION) 2) be entertaining and spontaneous. (REWARD) 3) be friendly and charming. (REWARD) 4) not have the appearance of being broke. (CONTROL/ATTRACTION) 5) wear nice clean clothes and smell ok. (ATTRACTION) 6) not appear too eager. (ATTRACTION) CONTROL=Your state when you are not "rewarding" the girl.

REWARD=Milk and cookies..

ATTRACTION=I have something that you look for..

Details ...

1) Appearance of confidence and control comes from body language, facial expression and mannerisms ... Try to make as many decisions as possible on your own, have the look like whatever progress that's happening with the girl is just the way you expected it to go, even appear to check out other girls occasionally ... Do not look unusually happy just because the girl said something nice. Occasionally NEG HIT, if you see the intensity dropping off somewhat.. NEG HIT as punishment and do so jokingly.

2) Spontaneity/Entertainment can be demonstrated with a good sense of humour and quick thinking ... If you can make humourous responses even to the dull comments that girls make and then anchor all the favourable responses you are doing well. Whenever a girl seems to be laughing sincerely and not for the sake of politeness make sure to anchor that somehow.. So as to keep the best times memorable ... Do not do this constantly though.. Do this in response to positive feed back from her conversation/body language/posture.. Do not give away too much of this.

This is like a reward..

e.g. Tell the girl that the a guy X forgot to zip his fly as a joke..

As a reward for say her letting you tongue her down ...

3) To be friendly and charming show the girl glimpses of you being a "gentleman" do so only when she seems to have done/said something nice to you. She will be able to see that those kind of behaviours that you like to see from her lead her to your soft inner self. Girls like to change bad boys into nice guys.. They like to think that they can change your behaviour. Its an ego trip for them and this is also a reward. This is a stronger one than 2.

e.g. Open the door for the girl for example if she rubbed your crotch in the night club ...

4) Dont wear cheap trash. Do not hang with people that do.

5) As above.

6) To not appear to eager you must not go physical prematurely and must not go to sexual audio prematurely. A girl will often mention sex directly and/or indirectly with speech and/or physical contact. Safest bet is to initiate the sexual part of the pu after such an indication and not before ... Stick to the control/reward phase until such indication..Exceptions apply of course but rarely.. Almost always you will be aware of the girls readiness to move into sexual directions ... For the exceptions just start KINO with the neutral body zones moving into more sexual and your movement should proceed with regard to the girls feedback.

Do not spend more than 10 minutes with any one girl if you have not been given any signal for to get EL PHYSICAL.

This is a basic strategy which works for many regular players.

- Hello, below are my net details ...

my home page - https://home.primus.com.au/danielt my email address - mailto:danielt@primus.com.au Regards, Daniel :) From lifeboat52@yahoo.com Mon Jul 12 03:16:13 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: Timoteo lifeboat52@yahoo.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Outing Report: The Batchelor Party Gimmick

Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 23:21:47 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Lines: 89 Message-ID: 7mb8u6$7q5$1@nnrp1.deja.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.210.89.220 X-Article-Creation-Date: Sun Jul 11 23:21:47 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.6 [en] (Win98; U) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x21.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 204.210.89.220 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:50181 Status: O Been in the shadows here for two months but didn't care to post until I had something to contribute. Thanks to all who have provided valuable insights and inspiration, especially Sixth Sense, whose postings inspired me to change my attitude and get out there and do the work. I'm here because I want to develop skills that will help meet more women, with the end goal being to find a good one for long term. You have to separate the wheat from the chaff though, so I think it's necessary to meet as many as possible to improve the odds, no matter what the goal may be. I think the following should be of interest to the newbies and AFC's here, as I'm sure most of the regulars already have these basic concepts wired.

Last night was a buddy's batchelor party, and someone came up with the idea that we should bring a marker with us and have all the girls we meet sign his shirt. I saw this as a great excuse to meet a lot of women so naturally I appointed myself as entertainment director and babe recruiter. As the night progressed we bar-hopped all over town and eventually the shirt was full of signatures. I was only talking to HB's of 6 or better, and the majority were in the 7/8 range with a couple of 9's thrown in (I think a true 10 would be so rare that I may never meet one) and ranged in age from 21 to 40 (yes I found a 40yo HB) I simply looked around for the finest ones and would approach them immediately with a big friendly smile and introduce myself. As a little test I was very careful to make the approach as if I was just some guy who wanted to meet them, and wouldn't tell them about the shirt until I had seen their reaction to my approach, and gotten their names.

The results were a huge eye opener for me. I was surprised to discover that almost all of them greeted this approach in a very friendly way, big smiles and fairly accepting considering I was a stranger to them.

They seemed to be curious about who was this outgoing fun friendly guy who appeared out of no where. There were some who were a bit cold, probably because they are jaded from being hit on so much, but not a one failed to come over and sign the shirt, even when I interrupted them in the middle of dancing. Lesson learned: even the hotties are still just people looking to have fun, and if you are friendly and don't appear to want to take something from them, they will respond favorably, at least for the critical opening seconds. The challenge is what you decide to do after that. I hadn't thought of a follow through at all, so without the shirt gimmick I was pretty much left hanging.

This was a perfect learning experience for me, I had the safety net of the shirt gimmick to fall back on, so I was able to boldly proceed without hesitation. This approach put me in contact with four 9s that suited my fancy, and I was able to use it as a pretext to make conversation and provide my phone number to those that seemed interested. Unfortunately I was still on a mission for more signatures and my buddies were anxious to keep moving to new venues, so I didn't get the chance to have deeper conversations with them. I should have spent more time eliciting values and confirming their interest in me, and perhaps get them to agree on meeting sometime. I didn't get their numbers either, but by handing them my card and telling them to call me, and leaving, they didn't have time to think about it. They were simply left with a whirlwind impression of a fun, dynamic man on the move who was just as interested in making sure his buddies had fun as he was in picking them up. No doubt they will look at that card and remember me with my big happy smile. I will post a follow up if any of them call.

Concepts in play here: 1. 3s Rule- See it, go get it! Don't Think!

2. Keep moving, it keeps your energy up and makes you appear dynamic. It also ensures that you don't miss a HB because you were doing your statue impression somewhere and couldn't see her.

3. Smile, be outgoing and confident. Be friendly and don't appear needy or like you want something from them (at least not right away). This is the Stealth Approach, get in under the radar and establish trust and rapport. You can make your desires known later, after she has decided that you are safe.

4. There are elements of the Mr. Smooth Rapongi approach here, getting ones foot in the door on the pretext of selflessly doing something nice for a buddy. Also some elements of Mystery's dig cam gimmick.

5. Don't supplicate, let her know that you have other irons in the fire and she could miss out if she doesn't take advantage of her chance. I handed the 9's my card and said "gotta go, we're leaving now, you should call me, bye". You can bet that if she had any interest at all she's thinking she had better call soon, because at the rate I'm moving I could meet another girl tomorrow and she'll have lost her chance to spend time with such a fun guy.

Now, what I would like from the pros here is some constructive criticism on how I could have used this night to make some closes. How can we turn this experience into a workable technique for day to day sarging?

T Sent via Deja.com https://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

From bonzodog@home.com Mon Jul 12 03:23:21 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs .net!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news.rdc2.occa.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: 37897E2F.42F1B739@home.com From: BONZO DOG bonzodog@home.com Organization: @Home Network Member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en]C-AtHome0402 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: What is the "Elvis script"

References: 37895641.52C99A7@hotmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 24 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 05:34:40 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.1.158.58 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news.rdc2.occa.home.com 931757680 24.1.158.58 (Sun, 11 Jul 1999 22:34:40 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 11 Jul 1999 22:34:40 PDT Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:50227 Status: O From Mystery's now-defunct web page: Status: O OPENING: The Elvis script "Did you know that Elvis dyed his hair black? What was his natural hair colour? Dirty Blond. Did you now that Presilla Prestley also dyed her hair?

I dont know what her natural hair colour was, Im not Cliff Claven, but can you picture that these two every couple of weeks would dye their hair black together around a dirty sink in some sick mass appealing ceremonial ritual?

I bet people never considered that before ... did you?"

Bonzo bjorn wrote: I've been with this NG for about a month. I've heard the term "Elvis script" come up a few times. Can anyone elaborate on this? Is it on Ross's course? I am waiting for his course to come out on CD before I send away for it. Thanks for any info ...

From mgurapa@hotmail.com Tue Jul 13 04:18:59 1999 Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast From: mgurapa@hotmail.com (Casey)

Subject: Success!!

X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.0 Beta #2 Date: Mon, 05 Jul 99 21:23:27 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 166.72.205.213 Message-ID: 37812095@news3.us.ibm.net X-Trace: 5 Jul 1999 21:16:05 GMT, 166.72.205.213 Organization: Global Network Services - Remote Access Mail & News Services Lines: 92 X-Notice: Items posted that violate the IBM.NET Acceptable Use Policy X-Notice: should be reported to postmaster@ibm.net X-Complaints-To: postmaster@ibm.net Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!remarQ-easT!supernews.com!remarQ.com!newsfeed.us.ibm .net!ibm .net!news3.us.ibm .net!q2u3l3 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:49286 Status: O Hey guys ... after failing mostly and only getting kisses and stuff, I finally succeeded with an HB. And she wants to see me again and spend more time with me. Well, more on that later. Also, I want to thank Dan Scorpio for his movie pattern, because it worked! I'm now starting to understand the concept of patterns and how to use them effectivley.

This past weekend, one of my friends got married, and I was in the wedding.

After the wedding, at the reception, she seeks me out and we talk for some more. As I said, I was in the wedding, so I was dancing and talking with a lot of people, and I think this really helped me. Anyways, after we eat and things settle down a bit, she comes to the table and asks me to dance. While we're dancing, she asks me if I'm seeing anyone. Here, I debate on whether I should go with the phantom gf thing, but I decided to play it straight and told her no. She kinda looked surprised and asked me if I thought I was a "playboy" or something. And she thought I was lying to her. I told her, that I just graduated from college and my school is known for its academics and there aren't too many beautiful girls. And the really pretty ones develop an attitude, because everybody and their mothers hit on them. And I said, "Besides, I have a better ass than most of the girls on my campus." She says "Oh, my god ... " and laughs at this, and I follow up by saying, "I even think I have a better ass than you." Now, she is laughing out really hard. I must admit, I really impressed myself here. Confidence is the key ...

After we dance for a bit, I tell her to come outside with me so we can talk and can't be bothered by anyone. So we go outside and sit on the grass and talk. Here, I did the incredible connection pattern from Ross's site, and followed up with the discovery channel pattern with the roller coasters. She just sat there and let me talk so I ran the movie pattern offered here by Dan Scorpio. As I was running the movie pattern, Jen (the HB) looked like she had absolutely no idea what I was telling her. Things that I was saying, just seemed to go through her. I know I goofed up with the patterns, but the effect was simply amazing.

Awesome!

Well, I'm on my way ... and thanks to all the posters in the group. I'm learning alot.

From nathan@metabork.fr.eu.org Wed Jul 14 03:30:45 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!WCG!newspeer1.nac .net!newspeer.monmouth.com!easynet-fr!buggy.easynet.fr!nathan From: nathan@metabork.fr.eu.org (Nathan SZILARD) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: The Learning Curve/Progress/Stages Date: 13 Jul 1999 09:03:03 GMT Organization: [Posted via] Easynet France Lines: 41 Message-ID: slrn7olvtb.9f5.nathan@linuxserver.icommerce-france.com References: 931653805.9021@www.remarq.com 19990711095014.07149.00010644@ng-bd1.aol.com 7ma93q$iqj$3@gxsn.com 7mdqr8$1f5$1@nnrp1.deja.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.114.83.33 X-Trace: buggy.easynet.fr 931856583 12491 195.114.83.33 (13 Jul 1999 09:03:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynet.fr NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Jul 1999 09:03:03 GMT User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.4 (UNIX) Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:50373 Status: O Think of my favorite phone close: "Let's do xxx together. I'll call you"

"But you don't have my number!"

"Oh that's right! LOL pull out a pen "

On Mon, 12 Jul 1999 22:39:38 GMT, nightlight9@hotmail.com nightlight9@hotmail.com wrote: | No.

| "Give me you number" with a tone that says: "it would be completely | normal for you to give me your number right now." Not "you have the | optoin of giving me your number" or "YOU, GIVE ME YOUR NUMBER."

| MrSex4uNYC wrote in message | 19990711095014.07149.00010644@ng-bd1.aol.com ...

| Im a fromer nice guy too, and heres a few things I do to | avoid slipping back.

| | 1. Never Never Never ask a girl for anything or to do | anything. Suggest thing or tell her do do things. I mean | anything, dont ask her for her number, dont ask her for a | piece of gum ... Anything.

| | are you talking about the semantic difference between: | 1) can I call you sometime (question) and | 2) give me your number (command) | | | | | Sent via Deja.com https://www.deja.com/ | Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

From tryan4@hotmail.com Wed Jul 14 03:41:59 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.unimelb.edu.au!not-for-mail From: "Tom Ryan" tryan4@hotmail.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: Props and gadgets Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 15:28:56 +1000 Organization: The University of Melbourne Lines: 94 Message-ID: 7md8qk$1bp$1@izvestia.its.unimelb.edu.au References: 7m8l39$6u9$1@popeye.eur.nl NNTP-Posting-Host: its-dialin2asy56.its.unimelb.edu.au X-Trace: izvestia.its.unimelb.edu.au 931800724 1401 128.250.138.184 (12 Jul 1999 17:32:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@news.unimelb.edu.au NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Jul 1999 17:32:04 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:50251 Status: O Giacomo wrote: Well, just today as I was sitting on a terrace reading a book on Ericksonian Hypnosis, which IMHO has had a big influence on the language patterns Ross has been teaching. As I was checking out the cuties and this waitress comes to take my order. But as I put down the book cover up, she immediately responds.

SHE : Cool! HYPNOSIS. I always wanted to know about that!

I *wish* I'd know about SS when I first got into hypnosis. I was in high school at the time, and my student buddies were, of course, my first subjects. Funny thing was, one particular group of chicks (8/9s, two of whom I was after at one time or another) _loved_ the idea. I was too much of a schmuck to do anything about it back then, but in that situation I could have done anything. In fact, another HB I was after about a year ago loved the idea - I'm amazed that I blew all these opportunities (hey - I'm learning).

I'm going to try this on that LJBF I mentioned last week. What I'm not sure of is exactly what I should say. Should I anchor every time she responds well, then make a pass later? Should I get her to do some silly hypno-crap, then follow with a genuine pass - or would that be too obvious? Should I just make up a 'relaxation' story and embed like crazy?

When I think about it, I should probably do all of those things: Anchor any good response, concentrate a bit on embedding, and improve her responses by getting her to do silly hypnotic phenomena.

Here goes: - We'd be sitting on a two seater couch, I think (that is, unless I think of somewhere better).

Do a big (traditional - association, visualisation, confusion, stacking, etc.) induction. Get pretty deep.

Then start out auditory, with stupid games; In a moment I'm going to ask you to recite 'Mary had a little lamb'. However, when you try to say the word lamb, butt will come out instead. Recite the alphabet, only EIEIO will come out. Forget your age, remember that you're not two. Try to add numbers, everything comes to 846.

Transfer to visual deepeners; As you listen to the sound of my voice, picture yourself at the top of a flight of stairs, etc. walk down, blah blah, now you're down the bottom, *feeling* v relaxed, etc.

Then move into pure kinesthetic; Feed her some current sensations (maybe get her accustomed to me touching her by, for example, touching her hand, shoulder, etc. and including that - or should I do it and leave it out - or should I do it and leave it ambiguous; 'and you can feel a variety of very pleasant, exciting, sensations'?), then add some silly kinesthetics; can't open eyes, can't bend arm, etc.

Then more emotional type stuff - I want you to remember for me a time when you were very happy. Let me know when you've got a really happy memory in mind. Okay, now I just want you to imagine that you're really there once more - get really comfortable stepping inside that experience, and letting that happy feeling totally surround you. Now, let's recenter those feelings a bit - let's imagine that this memory is actually going on right now, right in this room. Your body can respond now exactly as it did then - it knows how. That's great; I can see you've picked a very happy memory indeed. But it's time to just forget that memory now, and we'll move on to something else [more deepening, and some comfort/relaxation/'open to anything' association stuff]. I want you to remember a time you were really excited blah blah blah. Now, remember a time when you were really attracted to someone. A time when you were so attracted to the person in front of you that you just had to be with him, when you could think about nothing but having this amazing person you're touching you all over (some confusin' stuff - good or bad?) right now. You know that you can only give in to this person, and that when you do, it'll be everything you expect and more. You can imagine how pleasurable it'd be for him to touch you ... here ... or here ...

- My question is: If I try to pull this one, is she going to fall for it? Or will she go BALISTIC?

Now, all I need is a book cover that says: 20 EASY STEPS TO BECOME A SEX GOD Or even: 20 EASY STEPS TO BECOMING A SEX GOD With yourpicture yourname 8) From tryan4@hotmail.com Wed Jul 14 03:44:25 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!206.165.3.11.MISMATCH!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gctr .net!newspeer1.nac .net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: Tom tryan4@hotmail.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Hypnotic Inductions (LONG) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 04:14:21 GMT Organization: - Lines: 112 Message-ID: 7meeel$83t$1@nnrp1.deja.com References: 7m8l39$6u9$1@popeye.eur.nl 7md8qk$1bp$1@izvestia.its.unimelb.edu.au 7me2pf$rsl$1@popeye.eur.nl NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.250.6.243 X-Article-Creation-Date: Tue Jul 13 04:14:21 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 doc.its.unimelb.edu.au:8000 (Squid/2.1.PATCH2), 1.0 x24.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 128.250.138.100, 128.250.6.243 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:50339 Status: O Giacomo wrote: I do have a questions myself.

Do you know any good PRACTICAL materials on hypnosis, such as audio cassettes or web site that supplies audio files?

I understand in theory how it should work, but in practice the trance induction is not completely clear to me. For example, how many times do you repeat certain phrases or how do you see that she has reached a certain level of hypnotic trance. How long does the complete trance induction take?

Any suggestion or link will be appreciated.

There's a variety of resources online, such as hypnosis.com and the like. If you're happy to spend a little money, go buy some Bandler and Grinder or Erickson himself. There's a lot, but I've found these to be among the best. Induction will come with practice - it's really not that hard. Similar to SS.

All other things being equal: longer induction = deeper trance Hence, induction takes as long as you need. WRT measuring trances, you're out of luck - it's not going to happen. You'll get a feel for it, though, and have a good idea of how far an individual X has to go before they'll do Y. Your intuitions will become quite accurate after a little practice.

Some rules of thumb: - try to avoid speaking in a monotone - pay attention to the subject, and try to validate their experience (e.g. if they cough: "And you know that with that cough you can relax more and more" - the coughing has nothing to do with relaxing, but this works) - if the subject responds well (mood appropriate to what your saying, skin colour changing, visible relaxation, slower breathing, etc.) do what you're doing more - if the subject responds poorly, CHANGE WHAT YOU'RE DOING!!

Here's a rough version of my favourite old-style ('official') induction: [Have the subject sit somewhere and pick something to look at; the roof, the wall, the TV, whatever - but don't *you* worry about what it is. Just ask her to pick a spot and look at it] I want you to begin to concentrate all your attention on that spot.

Fix your eyes on it, and allow yourself to breath deeply and peacefully. Listen closely to the sound of my voice - and keep looking at that spot. You will notice that your eyelids have a tendency to get heavy. Almost as if they had a heavy weight attached to them. And, the longer you stare the heavier your eyelids become, and you [when they blink] blink, and they have a feeling like something is pulling them down, as if they wanted to close, slowly close, and get drowsier and sleepier and heavier. And you have a feeling as if they were closing, slowly closing, getting drowsier and heavier, and when they finally do close, just think about how good you'll feel. Drowsy, heavy, pulling down, down, down, slowly closing, getting harder and harder to see, and you feel good. Feel that very soon they will close tightly, almost tightly closing, almost closing, closing tightly. Your eyes are tightly closed; you feel good; you feel comfortable; you feel relaxed all over; just let yourself drift and enjoy this comfort and relaxation.

[pause for, say, 10 seconds or so] But before you let go completely, and go into a deep hypnotic trance, just let yourself listen carefully to everything I say to you.

It's going to happen automatically, so you don't need to think about that now.

The muscles in and around your eyes will relax all by themselves as you continue breathing, easily and freely.

Without thinking about it, you will soon enter a deep, peaceful hypnotic trance, without any effort. There is nothing important for your concious mind to do.

There is nothing really important except the activity of your subconscious mind .. and that can be as automatic as dreaming ... and you know how easily you can forget your dreams.

You are responding very nicely - you can realize that you are in a very different state now, and that realization just causes you to relax even further. And without noticing it, you are revealing signs that indicate that you are beginning to drift into a deep hypnotic trance.

You can really enjoy relaxing more and more, and your subconscious mind will listen to each word I say. And it becomes less important for you to consciously listen to my voice.

[quietly] Your subconscious can hear me even if I whisper.

And as your mind drifts, you can begin to notice that you aware of everything around you - and yet, you are not aware. You are listening with your subconscious mind, while your conscious mind is far away, and not listening. Your conscious mind is far away, and not listening.

Your subconscious mind is awake, and listening, and hearing everything while your conscious mind remains very relaxed and peaceful. You can relax peacefully because your subconscious mind is taking charge, and when this happens you can let your subconscious do all the listening.

Your subconscious mind knows, and because your subconscious mind knows, your conscious mind does not need to know, and and stay asleep, and not mind while your subconscious mind stays wide awake.

You have much potential in your subconscious mind that you don't have in your conscious mind. You can remember everything that has happened with your subconscious mind, but you cannot remember everything with your concious mind. You can forget so easily, and with forgetting some things you can remember other things. Rembering what you need to remember, and forgetting what you can forget. It's alright to forget, you need not remember. You can just let your mind listen and forget, while relaxing very, very deeply. Just keep that relaxation in mind, while I ask you to perform some simple tasks for me: ...

Sent via Deja.com https://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

From tryan4@hotmail.com Wed Jul 14 03:46:56 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!207.138.35.59.MISMATCH!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gctr .net!newsfeed.enteract.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.unimelb.edu.au!not-for-mail From: "Tom Ryan" tryan4@hotmail.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: Props and gadgets Date: Tue, 13 Jul 1999 23:17:58 +1000 Organization: The University of Melbourne Lines: 123 Message-ID: 7me4ai$5bo$1@izvestia.its.unimelb.edu.au References: 7m8l39$6u9$1@popeye.eur.nl 7md8qk$1bp$1@izvestia.its.unimelb.edu.au NNTP-Posting-Host: its-dialin1asy58.its.unimelb.edu.au X-Trace: izvestia.its.unimelb.edu.au 931828882 5496 128.250.138.122 (13 Jul 1999 01:21:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@news.unimelb.edu.au NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Jul 1999 01:21:22 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:50305 Status: O I just realized this would be a *big* mistake. Methinks I'll change the ending to an anchor, for use at my leasure. I don't want to be *too* obvious.

I'm thinking of anchoring with maybe a touch on the shoulder, and a particular 'hmmm' type noise. Bad?

Tom Ryan tryan4@hotmail.com wrote in message news:7md8qk$1bp$1@izvestia.its.unimelb.edu.au ...

Giacomo wrote: Well, just today as I was sitting on a terrace reading a book on Ericksonian Hypnosis, which IMHO has had a big influence on the language patterns Ross has been teaching. As I was checking out the cuties and this waitress comes to take my order. But as I put down the book cover up, she immediately responds.

SHE : Cool! HYPNOSIS. I always wanted to know about that!

When I think about it, I should probably do all of those things: Anchor any good response, concentrate a bit on embedding, and improve her responses by getting her to do silly hypnotic phenomena.

Here goes: - We'd be sitting on a two seater couch, I think (that is, unless I think of somewhere better).

Do a big (traditional - association, visualisation, confusion, stacking, etc.) induction. Get pretty deep.

But it's time to just forget that memory now, and we'll move on to something else [more deepening, and some comfort/relaxation/'open to anything' association stuff]. I want you to remember a time you were really excited blah blah blah. Now, remember a time when you were really attracted to someone. A time when you were so attracted to the person in front of you that you just had to be with him, when you could think about nothing but having this amazing person you're touching you all over (some confusin' stuff - good or bad?) right now. You know that you can only give in to this person, and that when you do, it'll be everything you expect and more.

You can imagine how pleasurable it'd be for him to touch you ... here ... or here ...

- My question is: If I try to pull this one, is she going to fall for it?

Or will she go BALISTIC?

Now, all I need is a book cover that says: 20 EASY STEPS TO BECOME A SEX GOD Or even: 20 EASY STEPS TO BECOMING A SEX GOD With yourpicture yourname 8) From tryan4@hotmail.com Wed Jul 14 03:48:49 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!howland.erols .net!netnews.com!newspeer1.nac .net!newspeer.monmouth.com!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: Tom tryan4@hotmail.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: Props and gadgets Date: Wed, 14 Jul 1999 04:22:04 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Lines: 245 Message-ID: 7mh394$7ef$1@nnrp1.deja.com References: 7m8l39$6u9$1@popeye.eur.nl 7md8qk$1bp$1@izvestia.its.unimelb.edu.au 7me4ai$5bo$1@izvestia.its.unimelb.edu.au 378BD5DA.D21B618A@metabork.fr.eu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.250.6.245 X-Article-Creation-Date: Wed Jul 14 04:22:04 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 grumpy.its.unimelb.edu.au:8000 (Squid/2.1.PATCH2), 1.0 x28.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 128.250.138.92, 128.250.6.245 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:50482 Status: O In article 378BD5DA.D21B618A@metabork.fr.eu.org , Nathan SZILARD nathan@metabork.fr.eu.org wrote: I've never done an anchor. How can I do a simple one?

(I'm assuming you can hypnotize people to some extent already) When you give someone an official induction, you most likely say something about "and as you listen only to the sound of my voice, you can just relax more and more, becoming completely comfortable" or some such. That is, quite explicitly, a command to anchor your voice to becoming relaxed, which is not too obvious - it sounds as though you're trying to get them to ignore every other sound (which is also true, and often useful).

What I read in Ross's course was not really explicit enough. Does it really work?

Yep. It works like crazy. See below.

What amount of work do you have to do? Do you have to be explicit about it, as in "and as you feel my hand touching your wrist, you start to know that it will remind you of that wonderful feeling" or do you simply do it at the right moment?

In the words of Bandler and Grinder (Frogs into Princes, 1979, pg.

84,5): "As long as I repeat that touch with the same pressure at the same point on Linda's body, *and* she has no stronger competing states of consciousness when I begin, it will always re-access that experience.

It's straight conditioning. It constitutes, in my opinion, one of the most powerful covert tools that you can use as a therapist or as a communicator. It will get you almost everything."

It helps to recognize that the subconscious is arranged like a language. The rules of linguistics apply to *all* it's functioning (a reason why NLP works so well). I like to think of an anchor as a synonym, or even a psuedonym. You 'say' the anchor, and the person remembers *everything* that 'word' means to them. If the most powerful connection that stimulus has to their experience is that it was also around when they were feeling really horny, they'll remember those feelings very easily. And how can you remember feelings without feeling them? If I ask you to remember the colour blue, *without picturing it*, it's impossible. The whole meaning of blue is about what a picture looks like. Without the picture, it's meaningless.

Same deal with everything - including 'feelings'.

Whether the subject knows of the anchor or not is pretty much irrelevant - in the particular case I'm in now, I'm going to use an overt anchor, to make it all seem like some fun game, and also to make it more obvious that I'm in charge. OTOH, I'd usually be inclined to emphasis the anchor without directly saying it is an anchor: "As you think about those feelings, pay close attention to the sensation in your shoulder right [use the right shoulder if you say this, BTW] now, and you can sense that it only occurs when you have these feelings.

These feelings of blah [continue talking about the feelings as before, and pretend the anchoring never happened] blah blah.."

Then, when you're about to make a pass, just be sure your hand is on her shoulder again.

I like anchoring to the shoulder, but I think most (notably, Ross) prefer the wrist. For me, the shoulder is more 'bodily' than the wrist, but also less intrusive. People don't really use their shoulders for anything - if you grab their wrist it can be a little too invasive, IMO. And with your hand on her shoulder, it can slide gracefully to almost any other part of her body.

[poste+mailed] Tom Ryan a écrit: I just realized this would be a *big* mistake. Methinks I'll change the ending to an anchor, for use at my leasure. I don't want to be *too* obvious.

I'm thinking of anchoring with maybe a touch on the shoulder, and a particular 'hmmm' type noise. Bad?

Tom Ryan tryan4@hotmail.com wrote in message news:7md8qk$1bp$1@izvestia.its.unimelb.edu.au ...

SHE : Cool! HYPNOSIS. I always wanted to know about that!

Should I just make up a 'relaxation' story and embed like crazy?

When I think about it, I should probably do all of those things: Anchor any good response, concentrate a bit on embedding, and improve her responses by getting her to do silly hypnotic phenomena.

Here goes: - We'd be sitting on a two seater couch, I think (that is, unless I think of somewhere better).

Do a big (traditional - association, visualisation, confusion, stacking, etc.) induction. Get pretty deep.

this person, and that when you do, it'll be everything you expect and more.

You can imagine how pleasurable it'd be for him to touch you ...

here ... or here ...

- My question is: If I try to pull this one, is she going to fall for it?

Or will she go BALISTIC?

Now, all I need is a book cover that says: 20 EASY STEPS TO BECOME A SEX GOD Or even: 20 EASY STEPS TO BECOMING A SEX GOD With yourpicture yourname 8) Sent via Deja.com https://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

From taacnt4224@aol.com Thu Jul 15 03:25:11 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!howland.erols .net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: taacnt4224@aol.com (Woody ) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: Stupid grin when hitting on women!!

Lines: 22 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 14 Jul 1999 23:54:49 GMT References: 19990630225912.23804.00003037@ng-fj1.aol.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990714195449.29671.00000279@ng-bg1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:50564 Status: O In one SS tape, Major Mark talks about putting a picture of the woman he is talking to having great sex with him over her shoulder and adjusting his conversation until the picture is just right. I think you two have got something here.

I would be looking at a chick and she would be talking about some shit I didn't care about, then I would just imaging my cock sliding through her DSLs and over the top of her tongue :) I would get the BEST evil grin. It was really funny.

think I need to start that up again :) From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Thu Jul 15 03:45:27 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!howland.erols .net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: A date with dubious outcome Lines: 174 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 13 Jul 1999 02:19:32 GMT References: btte-1207990334420001@nw62.netwave.ca Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990712221932.15229.00002910@ng-fz1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:50317 Status: O I finally met this black girl that picked me up in a club some time ago.

picked YOU up? I hope you fucked her immediately.

She takes me to a cool Martini place (I can use this excuse of being a newcomer to let her pick the place).

there is nothing wrong with letting her pick a place. who gives a fuck where you go? she invited YOU out so enjoy the ride. now if she takes you out to places where you can't run your game and she knows too many people, you need to change the venue ... until then, chill.

OK, they bring our Martinis and we have to pay right away. We both reach out for the money, but she's faster than me and she puts a bill that covers both drinks. I say "OK, I'll pay for the second round". (Well, without the NG I would have probably paid for everything. :-)) first of all you should NOT have reached for any money. she invited YOU so she is responsible for paying for shit. second of all, you should NOT have told her you were going to pay for the second round. she might have kept paying. I like it better when chicks take out a tab with their credit cards. that way my brews and wings are all free until I decide to either pay her back for my share or owe her sexual favors.

Anyway, she brings sex into conversation very fast. I ask her about her favourite "Movie, color, car, book, blah blah" - a "True Romance" routine - and she tells me about a movie she saw at last festival. It's a funny movie about all kind of people with different sexual issues and she says she doesn't know how to describe it.

SHORT-CUT SHE initiated a conversation about sex. stop thinking linearly. remember the desired outcome. change the entire topic to SEX! NOW! IMMEDIATELY! she is testing you for your reaction to sex topics. when I was in HS, I answered a question honestly but INCORRECTLY about porno movies and was immediately LJBF'd by a chick that I got to witness making out with other guys in the school staircases :/ I say "Don't worry, where I lived before people talk about everything very openly" so she gets into all kind of details including a young boy who had problem not knowing how to masturbate. I say "That's funny, I actually knew a girl with the same kind of problem" (half true) which leads to discussion of the issue.

At one point I ask her if she's addicted to something (not drugs, but little things like chocolate etc), and among the things she names sex, but really good sex and not just sex for the sake of sex. We talk about it and agree that we both would prefer good masturbation to bad sex (I'm not sure I was honest there ... :-) it depends).

friends ... this is a PRIME example of WAY TOO MUCH TALKING! I would NEVER let a chick talk all this sex shit around me without attacking her. I am not bullshitting. This needed to be moved into the K arena when she started with masturbation. get your hands on this chick ASAP and usher her drunk ass home!

I also touch her hands a lot, and when I compliment her hair I move to neck, ears, cheek and stay there for some time ... she likes it.

see what I mean ... still time is wasted. chicks NEVER talk about sex ... NEVER!

when they do, they are testing you ... don't fail.

Anyway, after we finish 2 rounds of Martinis I ask her if she's up for some dessert. She's surprised and doesn't want any.

I say "Well, but if you're up for something light, like good ice cream and coffee, we can have it at my place" (I live really close and she knows that).

Excellent move :) perfect.

She thinks for a moment, smiles and says OK.

Before we leave she wants to check the upper floor - she knows a DJ there.

It's a small dance floor, house music. There I start kissing her and all, we make out then dirty dance.

that's nice and all, but who initiated this? I think you started this when she was willing to go home with you already. I think you got carried away with what you could get in the present and forgot that your ultimate goal was to have this chick in your house sucking your dick. the desired outcome was lost in the flurry of sexual excitement ... happens to the best of us :) Anyway I feel we stay for too long there and I'm about to take her and leave, and here she asks me what's the time. I tell her (and I don't like the question).

Then she says "Would you mind if we don't have the dessert today?"

I say "Whatever you want".

E-R-R-O-R why did you let her back out? now you can't even returning-fox her. you already SANCTIONED her flaky behavior. you should have acted like you really wanted her to come home with you but you were not desperate for it. it's a thin line, but it's possible to do. it's like when you are looking at girls' bodies in the street. you can look like you want to devour them without looking like you are desperate.

I have had chicks flake on me INSIDE MY HOUSE! :) if they were friends of mine that I was just going to fuck that day, I let them slide and play it cool. If it was just some chick that I planned to fuck, she's through and I let her know it from the second I find out she's serious. I kick her ass out IMMEDIATELY and tell her not to call me and that that was BULLSHIT! she has two options ...

change her mind and sex me or leave in shame ... if she ever calls me again, she knows she owes me!

whatever you want sets you up for her to flake out whenever she wants, even if she sets up a weekend getaway for the two of you and you buy tickets and rental cars :) watch out ... here it comes!

Now, I'm trying to understand what made her change her mind: probably while you were lolligagging dancing with her instead of taking her home, a guy that she KNOWS can fuck her WELL walked in the door OR the DJ told her he'd fuck her after he got off shift. whatever happened, somehow she got a better offer. that's why you need to extract bitches not only from their friends, but from potential cock-blockers as well.

-She decided she didn't want to seem too easy and go to my place on the first "date" (after all she even picked me up) that's not it. she looked easy just from talking all that sex shit to you. if she gave a fuck about her image she wouldn't have danced like that with you either.

-She agreed to go to my place just to be polite and then just needed time to tell me she won't go that's not it. she would have complained upon leaving. the way I read it, she just wanted to make a detour before going to your house to fuck. maybe she didn't like how you dance. chicks relate sexual ability to dancing you know.

-I screwed up something during making out/dirty dancing (hmmm ... unlikely) -Some other issues (her period or whatever other personal issues I'm not aware of) naah. she likes sex. if she was on her period, she would not have started with you. somehow she either got a better deal or you made yourself look bad in her eyes AFTER already having her ready to fuck.

Any ideas?

if the desired outcome is making out, make out all night. if the desired outcome is dirty dancing, dance all night. if the desired outcome is fucking ... dance until she wants to fuck then fuck or kiss until she wants to fuck then fuck ... don't lose sight of the goal and take all steps to get there.

I know it's difficult to remember this shit when you're horny,but you have to do it. that's why some people say DON'T DRINK when sarging. your logic gets FUCKED UP!

(Now, the power of being with girl ... She went downstairs to call and another black girl which stood next to me virtually ate me with her eyes ... ) should have introduced and gotten her number for next week.

Anyway, we leave the place and we set up day for next meeting. Then she says "Well, I probably should get a cab ... Will you go with me or just get me into cab?" I say "I'll just get you into cab", She says "Ah ... OK" and kind of surprised ... Finally we just walk to the place she stays in 'cos it's pretty close ... I'm not sure I should've walked her there, though.

ok. let me get this straight ... do you mean that 1) she says she is going to get in a cab 2) she asked you if you were going to ride with her in the cab 3) you said no 4) she decides to let you walk her home instead of taking the cab alone 5) you walked her home 6) you didn't fuck her?

get a clue dude! she was trying to take you home with her.

Leon From davidshade@hotmail.com Thu Jul 15 03:59:08 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!howland.erols .net!nntp.abs .net!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news.rdc1.mi.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: 3789B224.9FFE0653@hotmail.com From: David Shade davidshade@hotmail.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: the married room Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 354 Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 09:17:13 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.2.75.114 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news.rdc1.mi.home.com 931771033 24.2.75.114 (Mon, 12 Jul 1999 02:17:13 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 12 Jul 1999 02:17:13 PDT Organization: @Home Network Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:50237 Status: RO I much prefer to sarge in person, but when I am stuck at home, like when my sons are with me and they have gone to bed, I get online. Since I have finished Ross' BHSC, my online sarging skills have sky rocketed. I decide to try my new skills on a real challenge - married women. So, I get onto AOL and go into the married room.

I meet this chick from another state. She was originaly from here and has relatives here. We start with small talk and exchange pics (very attractive). She said that her marriage was very good and alluded to the fact that she would never consider having an affair. Her idea of commiting adultery is simply sharing deep secrets with another man. She only gets online to keep in touch with people. We build rapport and she begins to open up ...

Mary: I called my husband (he has been away for a week on business) and he was so p.o.'d. That didn't help much David: oh that was not nice of him. that is not at all a suppoortive thing to say. Now is the time when you need someone to support your emotions.

Mary: i know. we had some words and he saw it from my point David: Well good that you made him see it from your point of view.

Mary: it's not like i did a thing to have this happen.

Mary: I was quite upset when I got his reaction when I was looking for some consoling and really tore into him David: How do you feel to be talking with me to allow yourself to vent as I see it from your point of view Mary: good. thanks.

David: good. I like to see you feel good. And it makes me feel good Mary: So, you are divorced? How long if I may pry a little?

David: yes, I am for 7 years now.

Mary: How long were you married?

David: 8 years. but after 6 years of marriage, I realized I wanted something more.

Mary: 12 here. Married pretty young David: I did not know at first what it was, but I knew that I was not fullfiled.

Mary: We have had our share or rocky roads but they always seem to smooth out.

David: you might ask why I am in the married room Mary: do i dare ask? you have a fettish for married women? lol David: you might say :-) lol just kidding Mary: lol or are you learning what we all want??!!!

David: Do people really know what they want?

Mary: Very few! very very few!

David: I have been avoiding single women. Eventually they want to become very serious and talk about marriage. I just am not ready for marriage yet.

Mary: I only get on here to get an occasional laugh and see what everyone is talking about Mary: If I were to do it all over again, i don't know if I would get married. Don't get me wrong I am happy, but I think everyone wonders from time to time David: The thing I like about married women is they want to celebrate being a woman Mary: of course we do!!

David: and they are very sensual Mary: yea, sensual because of something they are lacking David: and they are tremendous lovers because they know how wonderful intimacy should be Mary: i wouldn't know about that one! lol David: and they want to savor all of it Mary: true, its in their minds David: yes, it is really all in the mind Mary: i think most woman fantisize about the moment rather than the actual event unlike most men.

(hmmm ... I think I heard a good idea for a pattern there!) Mary: most men want it with two women or this way or that way etc.

etc. etc. most men are not capable of understanding a woman's needs David: yes, that is very true. But for more mature men who understand that true meaning of intimacy they know that it is the journey, not the destination, that is to be savored.

Mary: so, you are teaching a class to all these non-intimate men in the world right? lol David: lol Do you prefer a mature man who knows how to treat a woman like a lady and can truly appreciate a woman?

Mary: My husband and I talk all the time and he doesn't understand that i don't have an actual sexual fantasy Mary: i can't seem to get it through to him that it is a feeling not a position that a woman yearns for Mary: I tried to explain at one time, that he couldn't satisfy me anymore physically as a lover than he already does but if he could learn how to unleash the fire in me than he would have an incredibly different view of things Mary: that there is a big difference between incredible sex and what I was trying to explain to him David: yes, that feeling of incredible connection Mary: he asked me to explain that to him, and of course i couldn't. I don't think it is something that you can really truly explain David: that is correct. It is something that you feel, something that you know Mary: unless you desire it as well, and he is content with what he gets! lol David: some men are just happy with just that. sex. and for them that is enough. But for others, there is a higher plane of sharing Mary: yep it is at the emotional level as you explained David: an incredible connection at all levels of intimacy - emotional, intellectual, physical, and spiritual Mary: exactly, so well put, but so misunderstood by many (Here I do the IC pattern. Based on her response I say ... ) David: You are a person who is very concerned about the good feelings of other people Mary: yes, I have always been that sort of person. Put others before myself David: That tells me that you are a person who is capable of a deep incredible connection and communication Mary: so you do fortune telling on the side too? lol ;-) David: lol I would like to think that I am a good judge of character Mary: so far you are doing pretty good David: To me it is just sharing. It feels good to share like this.

Mary: yes, it does.

David: yes, it does. I love the way it feels to share like this Mary: So, you share a lot on here?

David: When I meet someone I feel comfortable with, I will enjoy the sharing if it takes place Mary: it is nice having someone to share your feelings with David: yes, it is nice to have someone to share your feelings with.

To see it from your point of view. To take the time to understand. It feels very good David: There is nothing finer than feeling as close to someone as can absolutely be David: there is nothing more rewarding than when a woman can share with a man and teach him how to really feel, and there is nothing more moving for a man to have been made to feel so very vulnerable Mary: So, what made you come up with that screen name?

David: I think that is what it is all about. To be so close as to touch each other's soul Mary: ok, so i really messed that translation up David: wanna hear a poem I wrote?

Mary: sure, i would David: I like to write poetry. Will you give me your honest opinion?

Mary: you know i can really be a ruthless bitch, you may not want an honest opinion! lol Mary: just kidding, of course i will be honest David: I know you will be :-) Mary: just give me a minute to absorb the poem for my opinion David: ok, I will David: "The Tear"

(I recite The Tear) Mary: Thats really good, seriously. Simple, but to the point!

David: I am glad you thought it was good.

Mary: better than good.

David: That is a very nice thing to say :-) Mary: }}} David: That hug feels so good Mary :-) Mary: that is one of those hugging sort of pick me up off the pavement sort of poems! a great one for my day, thanks for sharing it with me David: I love to hug. It is such a wonderful way to share. To feel each others embrace.

Mary: you would have died on my lips all day long! lol David: It makes me feel so good to make you feel so good.

Mary: my eyes are still all swollen! I need a glass of wine, and a jacuzzi!

David: yes, that would be nice. with candles and fragrances Mary: Of course, wouldn't be right without those!

David: and slow soft music Mary: Those are the things that i appreciate more. The effort put into the moment David: and feeling like we are the only people in the world right now Mary: to really absorb the atmosphere that is being shared David: to really savor the sharing Mary: or being swept away to a beach and listening to the sounds of the ocean which i find extremely stimulating. smelling the salty air, feeling the warm breeze David: as the waves break mathodically on the sand, over and over and over Mary: yep David: and feeling the soft sand under you.

Mary: I could stay there forever.

David: and let the world stand still Mary: Hey, here's something funny. sorry to break this up David: yes?

Mary: first i will say that i DO love my husband but his translation of what we just described, is, The water is cold, the sand is gritty, the air smells like dead fish etc. the waves are crashing on the beach. And you bring all that damn sand home with you!! lol How can two people view something so differently David: lol Mary: As far as the jacuzzi? You can't do it in a jacuzzi, it just doesn't feel right, I don't like wine, and unless it's country music i don't want to hear it, and candle or no candle it doesn't matter and it smells like clorine!

David: lol Mary: I happen to like all music Mary: and one night after he was gone for a long trip i went through the extreme of setting the night Mary: I bought a CD which I absolutely loved, and bought wine for myself, lit all the candles, laid out a very soft blanket on the floor, had on a really nice neglige' and he came in the door and said "Allright! boy did i miss you!!"

Mary: the whole ordeal was over with quicker than i set the whole thing up!!

Mary: can you believe that?

David: I am sorry to hear how selfish he was. After all this kind of attitude from his part, I would imagine that love making would become old and stale and be reduced to just sex. It is sad.

Mary: not always, we are trying to work on that. but some things i think he will never understand and that part does get quite frustrating Mary: I'm one of those emotional gals myself.

David: You need to feel that sense of sharing and that sense of incredible intimate connection Mary: sorry about my little detour ;-) David: Mary, I am so glad you feel free to share with me all those things that you are feeling David: I adore that. It is so precious to me that we can share this way.

Mary: I am working on that. I told him I wanted a get away in the mountains at a ski resort. I basically spelled out all the details for him and told him if he did it, he wouldn't regret it for a moment Mary: thanks, david Mary: and i am sorry for being so scattered.

David: no. I am happy you are so sharing with me Mary: i am happy you have been so gracious to listen David: Now that makes me feel so very good Mary.

Mary: Good David.

David: You do make me feel so good when we talk Mary.

Mary: You are easy to express myself to David: I have heard that you know it is right when you feel you can truely be yourself Mary: probably true (At this point she opens a private chat room for us. She said "I am tired of using the mouse." hehe. Most of the private chat room text scrooled out. I did more poetry, including the last 2 poems from my post "Let her write your poetry." I did the Discovery Channel Pattern.

I did the Blammo pattern. Then I went into Major Mark's "compartments"

stuff from Ross' course. Absolutely LETHAL when used on a married woman. Then ... ) Mary: if two people feel the way that you describe and the way that I fantasize, they would have to feel committed. I think you would be committed because those feelings truly felt are of true love, something very few people ever experience David: true, and it is sad if anyone goes through life and never experiences them and never fully feels them Mary: so to experience that would be impossible because you would be committed the day you experienced that. am i wrong?

David: no, you are not wrong Mary: your souls would be committed to each other David: yes Mary: you can not truly feel what you described without affecting the soul David: that is so true Mary: so it would be a committment the first time you actually experienced it David: then what you say is true, but can it be done without affecting all the other things in a persons life? I would not want to change anything in a persons life.

Mary: i dont honestly think it could be done (Here is where she finally betrays her husband) Mary: unless of course you are describing sharing what two people desire but not crossing that line in putting those two people together, does that even make sense?

David: yes. I would not want to cross that line Mary: i am beginning to confuse the heck out of myself! lol ;-) David: I agree that two people could share while agreeing to not cross that line Mary: there is a fine line there though, very fine David: yes, and we would take great care not to cross it David: will you promise to not cross that line with me?

Mary: I promise david I won't cross that line David: knowing that, we can share that special place for just you and me. we can expereince all that is there to be experienced. Just you and me. just that place Mary: ok David: ok David: it will be our secret, to be kept completely to us, only us Mary: ok David: ok David: Mary Mary: David David: I want to give you something to think about Mary: ok David: I want you to first go into that special place that is just for you and me ...

Mary: ok (Locket pattern here) David: and now I kiss you good night and slowly walk away, to return when we meet again Mary: my mind is at rest Mary: David as far as what is unfaithful and unfair to my husband, do you understand that? Is this wrong of me David?

David: I understand Mary. I will allow you to think about that all you want. I know you have much to think about Mary: You are truly incredible David.

David: That makes me feel so very good Mary. Good night sweetheart.

Mary: Good. now good nite darlin' and sweat I mean sweet dreams to you!

Mary: or the first, whichever you prefer! lol ;-) David: I'll just leave that up to your imagination :-) Mary: that's pretty dangerous with my little mood swings tonight! lol David: lol Mary: you don't want to have nitemares do you Mary: of endless tortures of passion ! lol Mary: that would just be terrible now wouldn't it Mary: ;-), always a smart ass, I am!

David: :-) David: Mary

Mary: darlin''?

David: When you go to bed tonight, go into that special place in your mind Mary: ok gotcha David: and ... relax Mary: and ... relax Mary: a very warm sensual place David: (((( Mary )))) nite Mary: {}}}} nite.

Our second chat is very sweet and romantic. Lots of playfullness. She talks very breifly about her husband's return. I do not get into that at all. She and I are to share only that special place in her mind.

Our third chat is very steamy. She has us back on the beach. She describes in detail what it would be like. Then she wants me to describe in detail the back rub that I would give her using warm oils.

Then she wants me to continue ...

Mary: you know what I'm talking about David: Wait. Are you talking about cyber?

Mary: Are you a cyber virgin? lol David: What are you saying?

Mary: David, I have never done this before. I want to do this.

Please do this.

David: Mary, I will not allow what we have to be reduced to "Cyber"

Mary: Please just describe that back rub you were giving me. Such that the oil allows your hands to glide so smoothly over my skin. You cannot enjoy this unless you can hear my passion in it.

I tell her no. She begs me. I tell her no. She gets mad at me. I tell her again why not. She returns to romance and all is well again.

I tell her to go to bed and "think about me."

Our fourth chat is filled with "Oh baby I miss you so much" and "Oh darling I need you so badly" etc. hehe. I love it. I did the right thing in following Ross' advice to not let her have any unless it is in person. No more cyber, no more phone. Gotta be real. I am going to try to get this chick to visit her relatives here. We'll see.

There were three other married women this weekend. One of them was local and wants to meet. I'll post them.

David Shade From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Thu Jul 15 04:01:25 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!207.138.35.59.MISMATCH!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gctr .net!newsfeed.cwix.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: the married room Lines: 59 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 13 Jul 1999 01:44:05 GMT References: 7mdphg$va$1@nnrp1.deja.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990712214405.23289.00007380@ng-fk1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:50306 Status: O David you went into my old haunts. the chat room that ruined my life.

My attitude is basically online in those rooms - if you work at it - you can lay almost ANY woman you want. Test it out. You'll see. It feels like your super man and bulllet proof.

there is INSTANTLY something wrong with someone that is married and looking for love or companionship online. IMO by the time you are married, that persons hould be your best friend and the center of your universe. yes you should have friends, but the stuff David was giving her online is something she CANNOT get from her husband and he CANNOT even fathom the shit David was telling her.

that shit about fucking her fast when she set the scene up ... pathetic. he doesn't give a fuck about her and certainly doesn't feel passionate toward her anymore. she is looking for a man LIKE David, but she is not married to one.

she has problems that she SHOULD resolve in her real life. since she chooses not to talk to her husband about them OR break off the marraige, she becomes easy prey for us. this chick is an empty-netter, BUT! David is doing a sweeeeet job of playing her :) Fucking awsum! Now days I dont like to work at it. I got too much going on. (See my lay report) that IS a lot of work he is doing, but he is just changing his style to this from the neanderthal behavior he was posting before :) not that _I'm_ not a neanderthal :) anyways ... he will get more efficient as he gets used to doing this stuff. he will start to see short cuts and get to the point faster. it all takes doing the work and internalizing the styles. it's too much work for me too, but I am not studying this style.

Your chatting has improved a great deal. I'm very impressed with the big changes in what your doing. You are rocking!!!

I do think married HBs are an easier target. I never forget what you told me is - most married woman will fuck around if they know they can get away with it.

you would be surprised WHY women get married. it has NOTHING to do with sex for many of them. it has more to do with financial security, wanting to have a family, physical security, green cards ... because a woman is married doesn't mean that she has the man she likes to fuck. it's just the man she is willing to sleep with toget whatever benefit he's giving her.

my forte was always taken women. the reason we were getting together was primal animal instinct and horniness. we both felt it and wanted it. I didn't want a relationship and she couldn't break out of hers anyway. I can't tell you how many times I have heard "I have a boyfriend" and I said "ok" and she said "but that doesn't mean we can't ... " that's why I don't respect anything except for free will. people have free will and will use it if you give them the right reasons or feelings ... and the opportunity to continue their lives as-is but with YOU making their drab, boring lives fun :) I am out of the taken game now, but just think about it. which is easier to fuck, a SINGLE chick that can get sex off of any guy, or a TAKEN chick that has promised her pussy to just one, monotonous, lazy, fast-cuming bastard?

Huge improvements David. unbelievable.

Greg1 ditto.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Thu Jul 15 04:02:19 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!207.138.35.59.MISMATCH!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gctr .net!newsfeed.cwix.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!

My attitude is basically online in those rooms - if you work at it - you can lay almost ANY woman you want. Test it out. You'll see. It feels like your super man and bulllet proof.

Your chatting has improved a great deal. I'm very impressed with the big changes in what your doing. You are rocking!!!

I do think married HBs are an easier target. I never forget what you told me is - most married woman will fuck around if they know they can get away with it.

Huge improvements David. unbelievable.

Greg1 ditto.

From m1orphius@aol.comFCKU Thu Jul 15 06:25:19 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: m1orphius@aol.comFCKU (M1orphius) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: The COCKtail Pattern Lines: 53 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 14 Jul 1999 02:56:48 GMT Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990713225648.01859.00000526@ng-cn1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:50467 Some friends and I came up with the idea for this pattern while witting in a bar one night. I've used this pattern in fragments and in it's intirety always with good results. It get the girl laughing and thinking in the right direction. I use it in a laughing joking Tongue -in- cheek way. Iam suprised at how many women will and to it with there own thoughts and jokes. At anyrate when you use it you'll ahve a ball ... sotospeak -The COCKtail Pattern-- The other day some friends and I where sitting in a bar having a few drinks when one of them asked ...

Why do they call them COCKtails?

I mean who conCOCKted that name anyway?

Then my other friend said ... Who ever it was he must have been BALLSY.

Then I said ... I bet his name was PETER or WILLIE, maybe even RICHARD. Of course his friends call him DICK. ...

NOW, I don't want you to ... THINK I HAVE A BIG HEAD or that I am COCKy because ... that would be BLOWING it, and besides that kind of atitude is BLOW-ME ANYWAY. But Don't they make COCKtails with LICK-HER?

That reminds me of a joke my friend Jacquline told me ...

How do French girls hold their LICK-HER? ...

By the ears.

But ... I AM GETTING YOU OFF on a NUDE-ERECTION ... here. (Dick Point) Back to the straight but not so narrow path. (Dick Point) Is it just me or is it that ... WHEN YOU THINK ABOUT COCKTAILS YOU THINK ABOUT SEX. I mean if ... YOU WANT TO GET SLAMMED ... you could ... START OFF WITH A SLIPPERY NIPPLE ... and then ... HAVE SEX ON THE BEACH.

Or if ... YOU REALLY WANT TO GET HAMMERED ... you can INDULGE IN A SLOW COMFORTABLE SCREW AGAINST THE WALL ... and that would lead you to a SCREAMING ORGASM ...

Now, With me, I prefer a nice Dirty Martini. Did you know you can have a martini 2 ways? You can have it on the rocks or you can ... GET THE ROCKS OFF ... and then ... IT WILL BE STRAIGHT UP. (Dick Point) However when you ... THINK ABOUT IT LIKE THAT ... most people prefer Beer. Which leads me to wonder ... How much HEAD is the right amount of HEAD to have with your beer? And what's the proper way to drink that beer? Do you just sip on the HEAD or do you ... SWALLOW IT WHOLE? (Dick Point) I mean ... FUCK ME ... DEBBIE ... IT'S GETTING SO HARD. (Dick Point) ... to ...

MAKE THE RIGHT CHOICE NOW ... days? Tell me ... and I hope I am not being to HARD-ON YOU ... But if you where the HEAD waitress, do ... YOU WANT A BIG TIP left on the table or do ... YOU PREFER IT IN YOUR HAND? I get so confused about that.

Anyway don't you think this HOLE subject of SEX and COCKtails is just a CRACK up?

M1orphius@aol.com - "There is no spoon"

From quakers@deadmail.com Mon Jul 19 03:19:48 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!dispose.news.demon .net!demon!colt .net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!easynet-tele!easynet .net!diablo.theplanet .net!news.theplanet .net!newspost.theplanet .net!not-for-mail From: quakers@deadmail.com (Mal) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: The Learning Curve/Progress/Stages Date: Thu, 15 Jul 1999 20:35:41 GMT Organization: Global Internet Services Message-ID: 3796624e.28956195@news.freeserve.co.uk References: 7m8h85$f9a$1@nnrp1.deja.com 931653805.9021@www.remarq.com NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-24.ibuprofin.dialup.pol.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news8.svr.pol.co.uk 932070910 21052 62.136.73.24 (15 Jul 1999 20:35:10 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Jul 1999 20:35:10 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net Summary: z X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.01/32.397 Lines: 35 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:50638 Craig anonymous@web.remarq.com wrote : Im a fromer nice guy too, and heres a few things I do to avoid slipping back.

1. Never Never Never ask a girl for anything or to do anything. Suggest thing or tell her do do things. I mean anything, dont ask her for her number, dont ask her for a piece of gum ... Anything.

Well i don't agree with that !

What you don't do is give her, instead you tell her to give you something, make it sound casual as though its expected of her to comply, i.e. no room to say no, i.e. 'lend me a good music tape' 'I'm thirsty, get me a drink' Along those lines.

Always think what can I get her to do for me !, thus invest in me !, become subservient !

3. Dont ever page someone twice without them calling you back the first time without at least a 3 day spread. Same with answering machine messages but wait 4 days.

the harder you are to get (within reason ;)), the more they'l want to get you ! BELIEVE ME !, Ive played this BOTH ways with the same bitches !, i.e. run around and none want to know, not want to know and they run around after ME ! The EXACT same bitches !

From mirrorname2@webtv.net Mon Jul 19 12:47:22 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!207.138.35.59.MISMATCH!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gctr .net!newspeer1.nac .net!newspeer.monmouth.com!uunet!nyc.uu .net!ffx.uu .net!webtv .net!not-for-mail From: mirrorname2@webtv.net Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: My FREE Pizza I got Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 04:02:22 -0500 (CDT) Organization: WebTV Subscriber Lines: 70 Message-ID: 26020-3791981E-4@newsd-293.iap.bryant.webtv.net References: 379064AB.73D21D07@metabork.fr.eu.org NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.webtv.net Mime-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhQBG8yM/AWHJ2qH8J+Wu+pLZCppGwIUeXuXzUOYQLUpK1b7GTVCIFgCOl0= Content-Disposition: Inline Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:50873 Okay, here's the "general example", I don't like to sit there and memorize whole patterns You know that Marines recruiting letter Ross talks about? The one that starts off with "Remember when you were a little kid?" I believe.

Well, the first time we used it, we decided "let's get pizza, there's nothing immoral with getting free pizza". So we took the letter and figured out how to apply it to "Remember when you buy us pizza how good you feel?" etc.

We used first on people who had really bought us pizza before. Then we read and learned some stuff about memory in psychology class. We also read some stuff on imagination. If a person can imagine doing something, they can then remember imagining doing that something, but they can also remember doing that something.

Also, people have to "filter" all the time. They don't remember that they didn't ever buy you something. "remember when you bought me lunch?" "remember how good you feel when you buy me lunch?" Also the subconscious doesn't handle negatives without first processing the positive. You have to think of doing something, before you can think of not doing it. Don't think of elephants in suits. Did you just think of elephants is suits? Probably.

Therefore, to think "I didn't buy this guy anything" they have to first think "I bought this guy something" and the subconscious likes positives better. Therefore, while they're "remembering" whether or not they bought you something, you elicit the emotion of how great they felt.

So look at Ross's stuff. Change having sex into buying pizza. Take a look at the Marines Recruiting letter, and figure out how to apply it to buying pizza.

It also helps if you don't say "remember when you bought pizza yesterday?" when they didn't, you have to be very general here.

Also, if the person has never bought anything for you, or done anything for you, chances are they have done stuff for other people and felt good about helping others. After all that's a big "theme" nowadays how good it feels to help others. So take those actions and emotions of them helping somebody else, and anchor them to want to feel that way by helping you.

ps Not very good at "specific" examples, I'm more of a general person.

Uhm, Me:"Remember when you bought me pizza?' Them: thinking, trying ot remember Me: Remember what a wonderful feeling that was when you buy me pizza?

Them: What?

Me: When you buy me pizza, remember, how great you feel right now, and wouldn't you like that feeling again? Wouldn't you like to buy me pizza and remember feeling good. Don't you want to feel good? That pizza you bought for me was a wonderful experience.

That's some of it. Just get them to remember a wonderful state, and how that state was caused by the anchor. The state (feeling wonderful) was caused by the anchor(buying me pizza). To get that state (feeling wonderful) they need to get the anchor (buy me pizza). They never really had the anchor, but they V or A or K in their minds about the anchor ... a common expience, eating pizza. Once you get in their mind, you can create an anchor that is imaginary, but if it's in their mind, and they "remember" it, it's real.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Mon Jul 19 12:57:24 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news-peer.gip .net!news.gsl .net!gip .net!portc01.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: If she says she has a boyfriend ...

Lines: 91 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 15 Jul 1999 13:55:04 GMT References: 19990715.082154.-220963.58.Women_Purrrr_For_ME@juno.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990715095504.03132.00000550@ng-bk1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:50611 I usually just say "Figures" and follow up with a few compliments and a boy-I'm-glad-I-didn't-ask posture (not supplicating, but knowing).

That's if I asked her about her status.

I always delay asking about boyfriends. I ask about other things first.

normally, in the course of a conversation, a chick can tell that you are NOT just talking to her to waste time. you are after fucking her and it becomes her job to become receptive or fend you off. if she decides to fend you off, she will come up with a boyfriend interjection, like you mention later. this may or MAY NOT be true. don't take bitches' word that they are "taken". it is often a nervous reaction that they have since they can't figure out the BEST thing to do, they hide behind what NORMALLY scares guys off. the trick is keying in on their demeanor and their eyes when they say they have a boyfriend.

their bodies ALWAYS betray them, so make sure you are looking at her face AND body when she says this. some chicks, you can tell they mean that they are CONTENT with their boyfriends and are not entertaining sex with anyone else.

some chicks, you can tell that they only want a RELATIONSHIP with their boyfriends, but are willing to FUCK YOU if you can stand having no strings attached and perhaps not even her number so you can call her in the future (normally she says she LIVES with her boyfriend to hide her number). Whether she has a boyfriend or not is IRRELEVANT ... UNTIL you decide you are going to fuck her. Then you either need to bring him up and press her for the information where her relationship is lacking OR make her recall her boyfriend and how good he makes her feel and usurp the feelings for yourself.

Either way, a "boyfriend" is merely a change in the game, like playing football against 15 players instead of 11. the game is the same though. chicks operate on FREE WILL. as long as you can get them to BELIEVE that they want to fuck YOU, that's it! boyfriends, husbands, girlfriends, religion, NOTHING COUNTS if you can make her BELIEVE she wants you deep inside her ... NOW!

If she injects the boyfriend into the conversation unsolicited, a neg may be in order, or a simple diversion to whether or not she plans to marry him.

I like the are you getting married to him angle a lot. the first time I used it I was surprised at the ADAMANT denial of marrying her boyfriend :) after that, I always use it if I decide NOT to bring him up and get her to talk about him favorably.

Another thing I like to use if she is DEFENSIVELY bringing up her boyfriend is "so where is he tonight?" If she doesn't have a good excuse like he is working late because he is a stock trader, I play her into a "he's cheating on you right now" mentality. chicks can't stand that. PLUS they have to carry this with them from now on. I break down their BELIEF in what their boyfriend TELLS THEM he has to do.

me: so where is your boyfriend tonight?

her: he had to stay late to prepare for a meeting tomorrow me: he stays late at work every night?

her: no, only on tuesdays because the staff meeting is wednesdays me: chuckle and smile and look away somewhere her: what me: hahaha my boy used to call his girlfriend from my house to say he was working late ...

her: and?

me: well, nothing ... then we would hit the strip clubs! boy he was a horny guy ... he used to put the dollars in the strippers' g-strings with his teeth and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah then he would drop me off and go home to fuck his girl HAHAHAHA what a sucker! :) whether they believe me or not is irrelevant because they don't know me and they don't know my "friend" that used to do this. all they do know is that they now have an alternative version of what their man is doing tonight and every night that he is not with her. after that sinks in, I talk about wasting time and wasting your life and passing up opportunities to do what you REALLY WANT TO DO just because of some bullshit you told someone one day, like "I am only going to fuck you" when they are out doing whatever they want. then I bring up chicks that got cheated on and how stupid they felt when they were telling me about how they got played :) you can see how it just strings along and breaks their BELIEF in their man.

adding the effects of alcohol, you often get a flirtatious effect from the chick deciding to "get him back for cheating" when he was at work the whole time :) Personally, I find pursuing taken women to be lame and low-percentage, but Ross touts his "boyfriend destroyer" pattern.

it is lame as far as seduction goes, but there is much skill involved. the trick is to stay fluid and change your style according to the way the game changes before your eyes. if she doesn't have a boyfriend, that implies that she is available (will take anybody) OR very picky (won't take anybody) if she does have a boyfriend that means she is committed (won't fuck anybody) OR using him for security (will fuck YOU, but that's as far as it goes ... no relationship, just fun for her) you can see how it is irrelevant whether she has a boyfriend or not. what IS relevant is how she feels about herself and what she wants out of this night, right now and what she wants out of her future. figure it out and change yourself into the man she wants to fuck her tonight. it's not very complicated after you elicit her values.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Mon Jul 19 12:59:31 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: If she says she has a boyfriend ...

Lines: 40 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 16 Jul 1999 04:23:33 GMT

References: 378E98DE.15E99A68@primus.com.au Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990716002333.14654.00001032@ng-bh1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:50672 Actually, when i think about it ... People shit on me alot, time to give back.

Why must i suffer for all the corrupt folks out there?

I aint Jesus.

Daniel wrote: NYC, no offence but u go to far with this..

Ruining peoples r/ships for the sake of your sex life is not on buddy.

This is where i would draw the line.

I respect your postition on both fronts.

However, you must realize sooner or later that A) life isn't fair AND B) the chicks will be broken up with those guys anyway a year from today. and where will you be? without having fuvked her is where you will be, as well as a year older, or a year further into LJBFland :) RELATIONSHIPS DON'T LAST IF THE RELATIONSHIP IS SO GOOD, THE CHICK WILL _NOT_ FUCK YOU!

trust me. it's all bullshit. I have fucked girls with boyfriends, girls with husbands, girls that CLAIMED to only like girls AND girls that have devout religious convictions, as well as several other categories that would normally be deemed unfuckable.

I am just telling you from personal experience that I approached a chick in a party and told her I wanted her (in not so many words) and she told me straight that she had a boyfriend. I said "ok" and started to back off of her and she said "but ... " and didn't let me leave and we dated for a while.

FUCK HER RELATIONSHIP! If it was that good, she wouldn't have accepted me.

Not ALL women cheat and not all women can be swayed by us. Chicks have free will. They fuck who they want to when they want to regardless of ANYTHING but what they are feeling for you at that moment.

Just be careful that the chick isn't using you to make her boyfriend jealous and start problems :) From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Mon Jul 19 13:23:43 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!howland.erols .net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: Field Report Fri Afternoon Lines: 38 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 17 Jul 1999 07:58:10 GMT References: 01becff6$459d6540$5b557ecf@tech1 Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990717035810.18199.00001124@ng-fj1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:50756 Last night I checked into my hotel here in Santa Cruz, and there was a fine young thing at the desk. Always on the prowl, I mirrored, rec'd smiles and felt ood about it. Thought I'd be bold and ask "what would it take for us to go out tonight?" She said she had a fiencee (sic). I said "well thats cool, I know what it's like to be totally satisfied, bla bla, and went to my room.

major mistake here was trying to ask her out WITHOUT knowing something about her as a person. the problem is that chicks don't want to be thought of as a body, or even a body and a smile or a body and some hair :) they want to be related to as unique individuals. find out ANYTHING that you can act interested in and THEN ask her out on the pretense of continuing that conversation.

She was blond, 25 or so, BEAUTIFUL, and looked of high intelligence. I said "is that a rat terrier?" Her: "I dont know, I found him a couple of months ago, someone told me he was part JRT, me: no that is a rat terrier, bla bla. she: Oh, something in common!

me:bla bla (freaking out inside) We chatted a little about my job and how I work out of town, bla bla. She started to get that doggie DB eyes right there , so what did I do? I FUCKING SAID SEE YA AND LEFT.

:) major malfunction dude!

I remember saying to myself: If I ask her for her name, she will think "hit", or "Stalker" or something like that next time, try: If I ask her for her name, she will think "fellow dog enthusiast", or "potential friend" or something like that!

this is a serious mis-wiring. she was talking to you already. she had already accepted you. she said HERSELF that you had things in common. you really need to examine what it is that you feel about yourself that makes you think ANY chick would regard you as a stalker ... um ... even though ... you STALKED HER :) I have to get over this. This is 10 times worse than a rejection !

From mystery@idirect.com Mon Jul 19 13:31:06 1999 From: "mystery" mystery@idirect.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast References: kjsk3.837$J5.12102@c01read02-admin.service.talkway.com 19990718185328.12878.00002537@ng-fr1.aol.com

Subject: Re: E-mails with no rapport Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 21:55:47 -0400 Lines: 34 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: ts7-65t-15.idirect.com Message-ID: 379284d0@nemo.idirect.com X-Trace: 18 Jul 1999 21:52:16 -0400, ts7-65t-15.idirect.com Organization: via Internet Direct Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!206.165.3.11.MISMATCH!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gctr .net!cyclone.news.idirect.com!island.idirect.com!nemo.idirect.com!ts7-65t-15.idirect.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:50949 what she MEANT when she said she didn't want to see her pictures on the net is she was giving YOU the op to talk about sex in the context of the internet and her picture.

yes!!! this way her REPLY to the interactive routine you were playing. Ive been through this (I have a dig cam) 20 to 30 times with it. all the girls with interest say this. dont think its bad, its FLIRTING.

If she THOUGHT you were going to do that AND didn't want it to

happen, she would NOT have let you take her picture. She was making pleasant sex-conversation with you and you got SCARED of it and decided to bolster your trust rating.

and giving the card fucked up any chance of a powerful # close or kiss close. NEVER give a card. dont bring them.

you know who is the most trusted person to a chick? that's right ... her FRIEND! you are fucking up. be a man and try to notice when chicks are giving you the green light to talk sex to them :) agreed! He botched it ... but learned not to do it again.

good policy. your name is unimportant until she asks for it. even if a chick tells me her name, I won't tell her MINE until she asks for it.

ahaa. we have agreement to the no bother with the name rule. we are onto a new hardwired MYSTERY distinction.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Mon Jul 19 13:49:51 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!howland.erols .net!portc02.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: The steps in MPS (Mind power seduction) Lines: 20 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 19 Jul 1999 11:59:20 GMT References: 3792e112@nemo.idirect.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990719075920.04769.00000031@ng-bk1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:50993 forgive my skepticism here.

You masterbated to her image in your head and then you met up with her and actually boned her and you are saying it was BECAUSE of the imagining.

COMMON LOGICAL FAILURE: correlation does not dictate causation I know what you're saying ... the fact that he imagined her sucking his dick and then she did it does not mean that she did it BECAUSE he imagined it :) hahaha.

that's absolutely true, but he's talking about something else.

the theory is that humans can communicate on levels OTHER than the normal senses. basically the idea behind it is to "mentally sex" the chick and somehow the brain waves float over to her and she FEELS the horniness and gets the ideas that you are sending her. it's like using quotes, but mentally instead of verbally.

I'm not saying I believe this stuff either, but it IS an interesting idea AND if it is true, what are all the AFC'S sending to the bitches when they are conastantly thinking "she doesn't want to fuck me"?

From mystery@idirect.com Mon Jul 19 14:15:16 1999 From: "mystery" mystery@idirect.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: MYSTERY on SUNDAY gets a # (A breakdown) Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 03:51:27 -0400 Lines: 534 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: ts7-33t-28.idirect.com Message-ID: 3792d7c7@nemo.idirect.com X-Trace: 19 Jul 1999 03:46:15 -0400, ts7-33t-28.idirect.com Organization: via Internet Direct Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!207.138.35.59.MISMATCH!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gctr .net!newsfeed.cwix.com!207.136.66.98!cyclone.news.idirect.com!island.idirect.com!nemo.idirect.com!ts7-33t-28.idirect.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:50975 Gentlemen (ahem) ok get this ...

I goto a friends house to goof on his computer (I know I know) I didnt shower. I wore jean shorts (just bumming it) and a shirt and sandles and a baseball cap backwords. no gum, no recorder, no dig cam, no pencil, no paper, no NOTHIN'! Just my laptop to show stuff to my buddy ... no intention of seeing girls (which I think in retrospect is a failure cause I SHOULD always be ready for the opportunity ...

his girlfriend is a stripper. she invites a stripper friend over. she is living with a guy for a year and going with him for 3. he isnt there but she keeps having to call him and basically through conversation discover he is a hitting asshole. she is HOT though so sad. Guys, dont hit your girls - its really lame. Also, dont protect your girls from guys through pysical violence ... let her love you for YOU ... she is in a bad situ and I wish I could explain to the girl that loving someone because you know them for 3 years isnt reason enough.

ok, so we goto a coffee shop and she says she cant sit beside me because her boyfriend may show up. Im wearing black nail polish so I say, no worries, Ill just hit on him and act like a fag (sort of a ross thing ... very cool actually ... funny). she says no and is basically fucked in the head. its odd how she was SOOOO insecure yet so beautiful. Dont get me wrong - she wasnt insecure about her looks but once I began with the first NEG "What did you do to your lips? You drew past the lines! Didnt you take colouring in school? haaa haa." She said, "I was eating a burger."

from there on she had no power. Thing is, she was really controlled by the boyfriend from afar. My buddy said the boyfriend is a gorilla black dude.

huge chest and burly.

so she and my buds girl sit at another table and I was offended. so my bud goofs on this laptop and I notice 3 girls at another table. you know what THAT means right?

MYSTERY is on the MOVE.

I wonder to myself, "what is the solution to this scenario?" I dont enter the scene hoping to get the girl so much as hoping to win the match. so Im waiting for her to just look my way so I can say (this was my game plan) "check this out" and show the picture of me levitating the bottle on my computer screen (I attached the pic I ended up showing her here). I was going to say, "a friend took this of me yesterday at a club ... it was her beer bottle." Only she wasnt looking and my bud wanted to use the computer.

He was bored cause the his girl and the other stripper were sitting and talking at another table. I told him to wait a sec but 2 minutes of her not looking my way made me give up my computer to my bud. no worries. so the 2 friends of the target go to gets teas and the target is there alone. Im thinking, "fuck ... turn around for just a SECOND and Ill do my game plan."

Shit ok, my bud is using my system now so Im gonna need a different opener.

"I like your profile" I say ... pretty loudly actually. (I've used this before ... referring to her face but its a vailed anatomical compliment.) "what?"

"I like your profile" pointing to her face. She smiles. "What image conjures in your head when you see THIS?" I show her my black nail polish.

from here I am past the OPENING. I have initiated the chat. cool.

We discuss her thoughts on it and I talk about how I perceive people seeing it. I talk about the guy on the subway who had black nails and how I thought he was dark and cool. Like a poet. I then got her talking about image and the nails. I then got my computer back for a sec and showed the pic ... talking to her about how the context of black nails makes levitating an object almost scary. (CONVEYING PERSONALITY) the other friends returned. (OBSTACLES ... must DISARM them.) TARGET says, "this is just some guy" to them and I reply, "but wait, I am alot more than just some guy. May I?" I said pointing to the remaining free space beside one of the girls. I sat down and said, "We can entertain eachother while my friend goofs on my computer (Telling them it's MY amazing laptop).

Ok, get THIS!" I lean in to whisper to them and tell them about how the stripper friend was weird about not sitting with us and making jokes about her burly boyfriend. Then I go into my spiel about coming from LA and my getting my tonsils out and basically I just RAMBLE on for about 8 minutes with no real response from them but laughter (something I have come across lately is that it isn't neccessary to get them talking about their own lives ... which seems counterintuitive to getting them to invest their stories in the PU artist ... I just dont think they need to talk alot anymore). I just keep it entertaining and I dont hit on anyone. I sound interesting and they are listening to my stories and laughing. The target (who BTW is a 9.2 at least, great face, babe o licious bod and hair of silk (long) and 20 I think ... 5ft6 or so) asks, "so when are you returning to LA?" (I think ... AHA she is interested) I tell her not for a while and tell her that after the hospital thing I really got to thinking about the little things.

at this point I invest a total of 10 minutes in conveying my personality and my lifestyle to the girl. One of the friends was disarmed but I knew the one beside me wasnt. She wasnt talking alot or bothering me so I took the gamble and didnt bother trying to spend more time disarming her. I just pretended she wasnt there (she was quiet - just didnt seem to care all that

much about my presence). So in 10 minutes I conveyed confidence, money (laptop and travelling), social acceptance and everything that I feel is important. The target is laughing and enjoying my banter and asking questions. So I figure at this point, I have conveyed all I can without going downhill from here (most guys stay TOO LONG with the girl and wreck the first impression by staling out) so I think to myself, "OK, I have Found, Met, Attracted ... so now I must just CLOSE."

Its fun to go from ATTRACT to CLOSE because it is almost an entire personality change. You are fun and talkative and not hitting on the girl and giving little negs (I didnt really have to neg hard at all because I was in a cafe with her friends so it wasnt like a hard hit in a club) one second and the next you SHIFT into hitting on her.

I said, "I initiated the conversation very well didnt I? I mean this was slick." She laughed and said, "yeah you were good. :) Do you do this all the time?" I said, "Ive been in the hospital and recovering for the last few weeks ... I havent gotten out in a long time now. Do you rollerblade?

(thinking about setting the date to meet again with her)" She say yes and I say, "Here is the plan ... I really dont want to think about LA and all that ... All I want to do is enjoy the summer ya know? So you and I are going to go blading down by the lake. That's all I really want to do ... cool?" She says "yeah sure".

I then drop the subject and continue talking about some other shit. I think I talked about how the stripper could now sit at the table because I wasnt there so there was no MAN sitting beside her. I said, "Im going to head back there and make the stripper feel uncomfortable ok? in the meantime, do you have a pen? no? ok, Ill get you one and Ill give you a call in a few days and we'll bail out and blade together."

I get up and return to my friends table and the girl looks scared that Ill sit next to her ... I said, "dont worry ... there is little chance of me sitting next to you." I went and got a pen from the counter and returned it to TARGET and said, "sneak your # to me because I would like to be discreet." I then return to my friends table. See, I didnt let her back out of the # giving this way. I wait a minute and see in the corner of my eye that the 3 girls are talking all huddled as she is writing. See I had made it clear that I was interested in the TARGET when I began closing.

The girls got up and began leaving as the TARGET gave me her #. (Have any of you noticed SOMETHING yet? That's right. I didnt bother asking her for her name. You just dont NEED to. The name was on the paper with her #. I said before she left (her friends were already out the door), its only fair that I trade for this." I took the pen and asked a girl who was with I guy for her napkin. Jokingly, I pretended to wipe that girls face and then return the napkin. "thanks. haaa, just kidding." I wrote my # down slowly as I said to the target, "I have a rule. When I call you, I want you to act enthusiastic on the phone. I dont want to hear ... oh ... hey ... what's up ... ? I want to hear *glee* Ohhhh, HEEEYYY! You CALLED! :D And in return I will behave that way with YOU. Fair? I'll toyuch base in a couple days." She said, "Fair ... nice meeting you." and left. I returned to my table, sat beside my friend and said, "read em and weep boy!", showing my little treasure.

A 3set turned single and I entered. I used a photo routine, my nails to my advantage (and not my disadvantage) and then the set turned back into a 3set. I disarmed the obstacles, conveyed personality, got good feedback from the target which I didnt have to neg because of the good rapport (and the fact that I was with my bud and two strippers) so I phase shifted into a close where I established a reason for calling and then got her to give her # without asking for it out loud. I gave her mine and gave her my phone rule (so blurring doesnt occur in the phone call phase).

The whole thing ... 15 minutes.

Mystery the only thing this post is lacking is a pic of her (sorry didnt bring my dig cam.) Your Thoughts Gentlemen?

three thoughts of mine: 1) She got my name when I had said, "So my friend said my name , you are crazy." I indirectly gave my name so I didnt have to INTRO myself which is FORMAL and therefore not good PU practice.

2) I SHOULD have recited her name when I got the # (no biggee of course but I want a PERFECT SCORE in my MATCH). I should get the #, read the name and recite it saying, "Is it REALLY?? That is absolutely my favourite female name ... cool."

3)make sure you give your # too!!!! A must. Why? Because its like promo material. She has a visual and tactile representation of YOU. She puts it in her pocket. She holds YOU in her hand. She has to take it out of her pocket and put it on her dresser when she gets home. If she loses it, no worries cause you have HERS! Thing is, you also write your name so she can visually SEE your name for when you call and say who it is. Also, it is written in such a way as to show STYLE for when she shows the # to her best friend maybe.

begin 666 do_this.jpg M_]C_X `02D9)1@`!`0$!+ $L``#_VP!#`! +# X,"A .#0X2$1 3&"@:&!86 M&#$C)1TH.C,]/#DS.#= 2%Q.0$1713 X4&U15U]B9VAG/DUQ 7!D %QE9V/_ MVP!#`1$2$A@5&"\:&B]C0CA"8V-C8V-C8V-C8V-C8V-C8V-C8V-C8V-C8V-C M8V-C8V-C8V-C8V-C8V-C8V-C8V-C8V/_P `1" '.`AX#`2(``A$!`Q$!_\0` M'P```04!`0$!`0$```````````$"`P0%!@ ("0H+_\0`M1 ``@$#`P($`P4% M! 0```%]`0(#``01!1(A,4$&$U%A!R)Q%#*!D:$((T*QP152T? D,V)R@@D* M%A 8&1HE)B H*2HT-38W.#DZ0T1%1D=(24I35%565UA96F-D969G:&EJ W1U M=G=X 7J#A(6&AXB)BI*3E)66EYB9FJ*CI*6FIZBIJK*SM+6VM[BYNL+#Q,7& MQ\C)RM+3U-76U]C9VN'BX

3EYN?HZ KQ\O/T]?;W

/GZ_\0`'P$``P$!`0$!

M`0$!`0````````$"`P0%!@ ("0H+_\0`M1$``@$"! 0#! %! 0``0)W``$"

M`Q$$!2$Q!A)!40=A 1,B,H$(%$*1H;'!"2,S4O 58G+1"A8D-.$E\1 8&1HF M)R@I*C4V-S@Y.D-$149'2$E*4U155E=865IC9&5F9VAI:G-T=79W 'EZ@H.$ MA8:'B(F*DI.4E9:7F)F:HJ.DI::GJ*FJLK.TM;:WN+FZPL/$Q ;'R,G*TM/4 MU=;7V-G:XN/DY ;GZ.GJ\O/T]?;W

/GZ_]H`# ,!``(1`Q$`/P#AJ*6BI+$I M:** `=:44@ZTHH*04M%&*0PIAI],-$R$J - (*B498"K'M5$"444O:F`E%* M*,4`(*4=

**7O0`44"EH`2F,/WB_2I"*C;_6CZ4`.Q12X]**`$Q1TH[TN* "

MC%+1CO0`&DHH- Q"*,4IHH$*!0WWJ HZ4A&2: $(/:DI 48&* `48I?PH/M0 M`W&*7%+_`"H_"@08H[48Q10,&)"YJN,-*N_[I89SZ9JPP

4BJQ':A@ CV*(5 M`QQ6/XAT&22X-S; $M]X IJ7PWJ(GME5C

\7Y2/ZUT*X UDG8Z5:2//)["

M`9DC(]Q54"O29+2-U(*@BN:UG0BF9;=?JHJE*YFX6V. I* RD'!'-(JS,2D MIU)0(!3J:*44#%H[49H-`"=**7M2'(ZB@!****!"4E.IIH 2G4G6EH 2@BEH MH 2FGDT

FB@"O2T45!04444``ZTHH'6@4%(6BC%%(8AIM.-Z4T9R)(1U-2G MK2(NU #U[TN*L048HH_&@!*4&B@B@! T=Q2"ESR*`%H-%+0,0U&3F4?2I*9_ MRV_"@0

D[TOXTE !112B@ I:**!@12&E-)0(04HI* .M`#EX'X4E.QA328YH M&Q,48Q2XHQ0(;2]J7'I0!0`VEQGK2XI*8"TF*4"@BD T\X%,DCSR*?\`Q?I5 M

VTV2XL_M"D DA1W.#C

=,1F6UQ+:3"2([6'4 M=KH

L)=1CGYNX)Y!KC6B# MC*]1P:9%)+;2AXV*L/UJ)1N7&31ZG$ZNO6EDBWITKF-"UIKH

7)PZ]? NLA8 M,HK)FZ=SE-8T+ 6E@&&ZD M S(C1L5 8(/0UZG)"&% ]K AI *9(EQ(*N,NY M$HG%8I"*GGMY('*2*5/O41%:&;0VCC%+28H)%]J $]?R%1]N!3RY( STH&..

MQ _-1,2QR:6DH 2BC%&*!!VIII

*8: "EI*=0 E'TI:2@!.U`&*.U!'%`% B MBBH*"CO110`M`ZT"E' @I!0:6D-(!II4&Y@*;S4L(Y)JT9DE%(:*8"T49Q10 M`#%**2@&@!2*3ZTN?6@T`+WI3TI*4T#&TP?ZX_2GTP?ZYOH*!$E%)0* %Z44 MM H&%%+WYHZ=* $/M24&B@04X4T4]10, ?NTF* @&:2F# "C\*7M1B@0W&* M,4ZFT#$H/%+]:4\B@0G0_I396VC@T[H.:AG-`#%=RX53DL #ZUZ!I6GI#;+& MHZ=_4

M !BK!AU4@C\*]+TJ[CEMT=6!5@"#6 F:4TF CK D3Z==22J/W3,6 M!'09[&J]KIXU*(F)\2+PRD=*] N?*N8]D@# \ U3M=-@M&;R$"ACD@4N8MT] M3B_L=YI=PLQ0LHZE XKM-(U%+B%2&!R*MRVJ.H

4?0BLW

S!!*S0@QDG/'2I M;N"5CH4 $ ]13C&K_C63;W+PD+,..QK2BN =\TA

AF:II,4RG @(/M7$ZG8 MFRN"G.T_=- G3?,N.M SX@T\W%N2B_.O(JHNS):NCBR*2I&&TX/!IA%:F0VE MI 4E`"&DI:!UH /K24IH[T" ]*8: :90`4M)2\4`%)2TAH 0TIHI#[4`5Z2E MHJ"@HHHH&**4=:04O @:%IIIU,-"!B5/&,(/ H ,D#UJSVJD9B4M%'%,`

E% M'?BB@!:2CO10`9H/0

M%% #S2&E/6D)H`*C7_6O

%24Q?]8_X4 /`XI?I2TE M`PHHHH 7M2 &@\T4`(112TE A1UJ11@4U13P.E,:`CG%`%!ZT[& * $[4?K1 M2&@04G&? EZ=Z,T`)2X[4=?:GHK2.%098T 1]

:BE7=TJVR0QKEY"Q]$_P`: MK!OK0(JD$5IZ5K$NG@IC?%G(' 4R:S9$#LH*G

) 1562`CD TFKC3ML=A8Z] M;7+!=

QSV;BMJ&96'!S7F&"IYX-:5CK=U9X4GS$'8]:S QK&IW/2(6#?6I= MBL 16!I.IK=H) X

GI6M]OA!* [G`R5'6L[&EUN3R6R..E4WBFM3NBPRCL:M MVM]! L5C ;U

\AZC\*MLJNM,EE"+4(F 67]VQ.,'H?QJ6:(.G:H[FQW X (/ M4&JR2R6QVG+(.H/;Z4 OX@TW[/-YT8

1NH'8UB8KT.ZBAOK5@I#J1S7"7EN MUK /&PZ'@XZUK%D-%8TVGD4PU9 AH%%%( .:!12B@0TTF*=0:8#*=VI#1VI M%)WI:2@`HQZ448YH`K4445!04444#"E'6BE[T#0&F&GFF&@F0Z/[XJ:H$.&% M6*HD****8!

%%%)0`IHS2=Z*`%I,]/K2T=Q]: '&DI:!0 9ID?\`K'IXJ./[ M[_6@"6BDI:!ASZT4OXTE`!10*4 &@!*!2F@4`.4=Z?T-6G=L=L4Q@O\Z=]: M;R!ZTM!('K28_"EH

M "=J08!]*4T8]Z`%Y[ GTJS C[*OV1 ;@=TK K8Z?@ M*=I,0FU TC897S,D N!G

E5G RR,['+,2Q/UYH 9QB@8I: `: )[.Y

SR?O$ M\R%N)(Q_$/\`&K.KZ8=/E4JPDMIAO@E'1U/(_G6?UX[5JW=Q)=

&; N _9)W MM@?5=H(_EC\*`,=T# 8JJ\90U )P#525B3UH8$EG//% *+9]KLP4 A).!7HV MFV*+$"WS.1RQZFO-K:18KJ"5ONI(K'Z BO5+"56A4J164C6F MXF\S2]1M+B MT;9*-W'8C(.#Z@Y-=)I LV]]:QRJX5F'*D\@]Q3-=L(M2M2K##CE3Z5B:)I, MUDLJRD' X(QV&/\`/Y4G9HJSN=?YH857FB#CD53#RVX&`63T[BK$5Y&XP J?

M HU'H5'MGB8R0G#=QV-8VL6JWB[@NV91TKJ !NG0U3O+,2#@ CN*I.PFCSR1 M"C%6&"#R*C-='JNF-(2P&)!Z#K7/2(R,5 8/I6J=S)H9UH[4N*3&:8A*7M0* M#B@`II))P/\`]5*QP.G6D P,#\:!!VHQ3@*;ZT (312FDH !0#12T 5:/QHH MJ"PHHHH$`IW D%+WH*0$4PBI*8:$*2$!YJRIRH/K5:I8G &#

%4B"6DHHI@+ M24M)0 44=Z* "C

(?6D_.E_B!H 6EHHH`*CB'S/]:?3(NK?6@"7%`I,T?A0` MM+24N..*!B4O2D-+0 G-*.M' E'6@!X'%+0,8I13&'3BBEXQS1P.*"0'7VI/ MUI \TAI@&:.*%I U("YHLOD:W82\8%PJG/HWRG_T*EUC3SIFH26C-NV8PWJ"

M!5(X92",@CIZUJS.=8M(Y-

[4+=0D@8\S*.C#W['UQF@#*X' FGCI3L$$@Y!

M':D-`!T'-7)?W C0PGK).9"/HI'_`+,*@M45YT,B;XE(:0$X# =1GWZ4V: 2 MX ,[9VC XQWST_&@"(C(ZU5E7FK5-E4 6?7%`%/CZUOZ+KQMD6WN"=JX"O\` MT-8SP

E1$; M2U :;1Z7:WJSJ"'#`]Q6A'L(SBO+['4I[%\QME ZD\5U

EZ] M#=J%+;6'536;5C6,[G0NJLWL*8+56!P*9#.'QCD5 3&WWJ2GL9D@GM7_`'9R MGH :DCO6)VR(,8Z@U EB#BJ4UL&C8 CD8H)&30+-\R8-9E[I,%T#O3#_P!X M5 C:2W.5/!IIU&,._GH5Q@+MYR _Z?SIH3.1O]*EM"2/G3U%9VW% CF&&[BR M,,I% WK&B&(&6 9' 5HI=Q-=CG#[YI,XZ 4]A@G(IG J(&D9.XYXI0#0 3@4 MZ@0AZ4WZ4X\_2D')H 0\4AI6I#0`=J0G' @G`I.O7F@""BBBH*"BBEH&%+WI M.]+WH&A:1A2T'I20V1TY1DTF,FGJA!Y-69#@2.O2G]:3`I,; 13 ?12*V E.

MH 8:*7%)TH *!U'-%& 8

M #R*2EI*!@,U'#_%]:D[&F0=&

M B2E&*,9HH& M'X4IZ44'WH ***/K0 ?SIRCGI3 ]/7K0"'T@-*.OK3 TP8X4HZ ](.:" "@0 M$TVE'-*,4 *![BBEI#0,*56,;!T8JPY!!Y%-ZTM %EKM9?\`CYA20_WP ,:B M+P`_+$Q]F;-1]Z:1S0(?),T@"\*O]U !3 .**6@!,4V0':!ZD?SI],;[R#W_ M`*4#%Q@TC1J_4 TX FESVI#* D90]*(97AE$D;885;8!A@U ]OW6@5CJ-'\0 MQOB.8[']

AKIH;M'&0W6O*V4J 15ZRU6[M2 LA*C

%JS .Q:GW/4HYE8=:=\ MI;(KF],N[F]A62-?E/0],U ENI;0;I1E1U/I46+\RW+$`[ #@UDWT!!#A3C?

MMW=LXZ?7J:TC Q[AAB1P,]:@0BXEF\LDQQ1%$SQN/\`&_L ,?C51(EL037G MD,ODQG8H`8YZ

M3M+' (0&!)%9$PF X1@1Y(C(VC

)CP*UOL@2-0PS@8R*3U M8HG,:QIAC8R1KCU'K6& "?6NYNXV4%"=R'IGM7-7]@0Y:/@

GK5IC:,L=\T?

M Z=*5E(X;J.U(3Z59 ,1C IHI#UI1B@0&DI333TH`0#O12G'XT;?6@"O1114 M%BTE+10`4O D%+WI#0N:833C3#UIH4A1UIP)HC%/* E40"M4@-0]* IYI@.( MYR* V:=G-([T +130W8T[/-`"4A/IZBE-;@$T`2TAZ4IHQ0 U_N =3P*%4 M*7 Z!L4IY=![YH3DN?\`:- #Q2_2BDH&&/6BC-+VH 3Z4444`+

=/6F"I%Z4 M# G"DTT,#3F

[49&.U,3) ](3S30 E.H$+_*E%)BE'O0,,8-%+G%!&10`F:.

M:.:7&:!"4AI:,4 )0!2D48H`3VIA'[Q0.F"?Y5)V-,_Y:M[*/ZT#%%./Y4@X MI:!B=Z!ZTN**0R"9QTQ5 =

W'6I)5)/ I#&54JPP2*3)ZGIVB0HEG$B@!0H` M`J;7(A_9L_EJ"Y0@`_2L#P]JZO;*C-

\4885NR72S1$9S62T.C YS0GDN-*C M5F.Y0R9/L ?RK5T

9;:.7S AV

7:!T%);6RP96-=JDD_B34C1!I 4[V( 1] MI:Q-YQP"/N)G.VM(19'3BL9K?8QP,=P1VJQ!JKI'MG7('&X#I]:3=Q)6+%S M;JRD8K!N[ %BC?G6Y]NAE'RN#FJ-W&DHR#SZT#.0U"Q=9"Z#(]*S\8[5UDD6 M=RG&X=/ LB]L,@O",-W6K4B&C(/6ES1M*L0PP:6K($-.ICG% #@ *#

5-5 MB E.`]: *U%%+4%A110:`"E[TE+WH&@-,IY-,ZFA$R'(#U&:F5LC!X-. OM M[4W #V-422E0:9C%` ESGO3 44444 !

E-Z=.E.I* #. E(WW3]*#2'..: ) M?2E%(IRH

E+0`(-TQ/\`=6FQ?=)]S_.EC8*K,?XCTI(Q

['J: )*![TG-**!

MBTE%% !2FDI?PH 45(,8IBT_(Z?TIC$_0#O2$"@$,3BE/6@0@%*!0* GO0` MGX4H%)T%.'%,`QFCK1FDS0`'VI0 *0COFE%(`QQFBCWHS0`4E)(VP# RS' ' MJ:V;+3PB*TH#2'\A2E*PU&YEI#+(?EC8_A4B:;=,S'RL9QC-=-#"H["KD 8X MR!S4 YJJ9R TRYZ 7

M2)I%VW\ 'XUV"VP+ 5.MNJ\4N=AR(XY-!N3]XJ*M1 M '3_`,M'8

P%=5L49!].* 0, "ES,.1'-/ID5NFV.%03U8\FJ-WHXE0M']ZN MEN4R:J*0&P:5V5RV.*DAGLILC C#N*V=,UL$A)SM?U/0UO2V %TN)%!]ZYW5 M-!:'+VX++]* Y-NQT\%TC+D$'-3QG)S

5 /IVHO8OLG0LH] HKJ+75(9T!5Q M2:!,U" 1FJ-R@/ ZFG/ +MP"#4(DR2Y/)Z4A,K(ACE('(%6#G XX-26\ Y]Q MZ=:GV#TIB,Z0$,014$L9

\*U'A5A@CFH)(,#':@9@7EF').WGO5!K%B"8CG' M;O72R0*XJE+;,"2O4?K5)DV. =60X8%3[U&WUK=EC$HPP&X=F%9]S9A#G;@& MJ4B7$HQ\9I]2_9P.4)'L::RLIP5IIBLRI1TI**DJXM%)10(6E[TE!ZT#0A-"

M_ %(:4 `TR6*3N-.%(!5N&PN)0"$P#W/%,16R/2CCM6B-)GQU7\Z:

F7*]%!

AHNAV91R:4'-22V\T7WXR/PJ+H:8A:6F]Z7=0`AIK&E XJ/- $\?

K6ACA2 M:11A0*&&64 IH D\OY1SC:A/)ZGT%)%_JU

E.GYC/; I$&%'TH&/XI**6@`I M.]%%`"T4G2EH` O7M3B ]-44ISCZTQC#\K!ATZ&I#R*0@,I#=#Q21D[=K? 4 MX-!(?C3J0C-+

= "TX4WI3L 4##O2'BG$4GO3 : : .G%)B@'TH`7\Z0\FE] M\TE(!F0EY:L_W0XS751.N%.:Y:1%D0J E3V]]=6Z!"%E4 DX-1*+ Q496.K M5AG-6HS[URT N*O

MBD7U(Y%7HM ML LP

H-1RLVYT=%$W/WC4V_'0USG]O6 MRG[Q/T!I'\20+]U)&

@_QHL)R1T1 =333,!7-/XD4CY+ 3\2/\:@?Q$Y/%N?

A1RL.='4-(&-59`-WUKG_

$A8=89!

1J5?$$$W#'8X_O 4 K#G1NI\HJS' MAQ@BLR"Z25596RIZ5;BEPW&,4! 2ZT UN22T8!]17-:QHYT\B: L8\\X[5V* M2 =C39HXYXS%(H*MUH$SF+)' ,/$ZN"._%:L%K /@F/_`, %9,]I-I%RQ0%K M9CGC

&M.TNS(@:-\@]P:3%8TEC\I/FQGVHB#2,3T%,C8/]]JL(ZCA*!B

2!S M4,D8(JV"6%1.N 30(SY( ?Z57EBP,UH;"S U0S+P BF(S/+&\$#.:)[977.S MI5Q(QG(J8Q@H: ,(64 H.1@UGW$#P/MVY':M](\3X' G7%F&(XI7'8X*BDHK M0RN+124M`!1110`8H49.** G"DT"-#38$9M[ X/ K;3I@5BZ P\NM:-L` IJ M);FL=BR.E.J)6QQW-/W 5)0K*K#!''O6?=Z9%*"R#:WM5\4AJDR6CE[BWDMV MVN./6H3727,2R(589K N(#$Y':K3N9M6(":0#)H/4TJ M3$2_2G1_-+_`+HI MM20#AF]33 )_]4WTI1]T4EP?W?'J* *!BC-%%% !1Q24=* "G 9IHZU(@

M#NW Q33UZ4X] ::",FF-CA3#\LH;

\,4ZDD4E".XY'X4$CZ3/O2HVY0:6F,!

M1TI:.,\T`+BD

M+2&D F:7Z4A

E I@'6@]:7FDP*!!12XQ2?A0,9+_JR#WX_ M.E/6DD&0`3C+#_'

E ZTAH?2444#"C/'6BDH`*8Z*X

8?C3Z3\*!!;W5S9?Z MMMR?W36O9:[&[!9 HWOTK(S[]:KM%OD..M2XW"]CNH;L, 0P(

M6?/!P UP"

M7%S:']W(=HZ UJ6 O=%F&#Z]JEQ:*4SK0R2@HX!!]:Y

S=1SR()3E2#T/ MI5Z"]23#*P(/O4MTL5Y 8I._0

E06BS;!'4' Q'UJT,)PM U;W$NGSB"?)4_ M ?UK:AN!*HVL* +@DJ0Y;CM4`5@.U.#$#FF)BN0!@=:J3

E3%\FH)",T"%A3 MCFI),+'BHD;' B1LT 0PKF7..*N.JD#-50X3FF276.AH`\\HHHJS(6DHHH 6 MBDI:`"GK]T4RGK]VA 6;"3:

#6S&P85S\)Q(#ZUN6C$H" ]1+ TCL7$IX'/- M,4XJ13

=26+C%(:=R:&S0(A 5DZA&,9K7?UJA?+F,GN*M$O8P&'S&G1]2:: MW)-3P+\I/J:LS$/"$

@J=%V1JOM4;@?*O]XU*33&B*?[H'

T*D%13]%'

T*E M`H *,\4II*!B4448H$.'-2+PN:8HJ0\ "@:&D]::`#UI6I13$Q ':W_`.NG M@TQUW#/ 4QY"L?O0( I"%@ @.10UR@&!GZBJ18L DY-)STI7`TGFC6S24.#( MTA4QX/R@` YQCOTJ(7:]U/X4VW=!IMVI:$.60J'0EFZ@[3T&.I] /2JA_7K2 MN!I(X ;E/!IY]ZKVG

I)]ZG[50Q#1VHHH$&? CUI.] H&.)_*D[T44P&.,O& M!_ S

AI12'_7*!_=)_E2CK2&A31WHH'6@8?2C/XTE&30(**#1

= #6.*:/E= M6X."#@]#[&DD/(HI"'SR& 1W("[V+848`R \5 T2GIQ4G:D-`#(VG@.8G(

A MJY'K5Q& )%#8[]*K4AP U)I,+V- 35K6\@V3Y4]CCH:=I

H[?E9MX7C O7\: MPV0'I3!OB;*D@TN4?,SNH+U77(D_6I_.!ZL?SKC+;5"A`E'_``)?\*U(=3B8 M#$B_B 5%FBU),WC+G@'BDW#US63_`&E$.LJ#_@0IDFLV\8R'#GT7FC4+HV=P M456N+U$

4'+ @KG+K7)I6(C78GZFBUU)0 .H!]13LQ71M&:1_84 MUJ*&ZCD M`P U8#@BD!Q.#112Y([59G83BC-+D E+\OK0`VEI #U%+M]Q

= #: OW32;"

M:#E01CK0@' C*D?2MBS;]RGTK#!Q6O:,/+0 5,BX&BC9-3AL#BJ:MAA5G/'% M0:$R$D9IQ!IB-\O%*3CO0 QU.#@&J-R H0:T-WI5*[7*$BFB6 V ,CTJU"/W M8]ZK2 2,/ K:X `%:HR$ZRCV%.-(G))I \TQD4OWD_WJEJ*3_6)]:E- !]:2 MBB@`[4Y1[T@IZB@8]:1N32]*83SF@8A/.1VIP/ 4T=#[TG0TR23M4$X`%3*: MBN5)7I0(J"C)[T"CZ5(CI='LX9O"FIR,B;\K\[+DK@GH W3]:YL@C@]?Y&M+ M3-0O;6TNH;9PL R@297. ?\`ZS6 S$]3UI@6;1OF #&.#5DX-5K+&UQQG(JR M GM3&@_6DHH'6@8A]Z2G'FFXS]: %S1NIHZ]:=SCF@0P',Y]E'ZG_P"L* ,4 MQ?\`62=,C _3/]: O(%(I :*#Q2=/:F,7OQ2$4=J2D 4II*1C@4Q$;]C[TM( MW2BD(4XQ3:6DH **** $-)UI310(:R*:3RU]33S24 )M`I":4TUC0 QNM)TH M-)0!-# /$ #Q6E#J(*\\?C6/1S2:"XE%%%24%%%%`!Q2XI*44 @Q33UI]-/6 MFF$D)FK]D_[OZ'%4*FMGV2$=F%#6@HO4VHSN`-6U/ LZW?C%7 _N

#TK(U)T M8XZTNXYJ./\`I3AZT#'DXZU7E(934I?%1R_-VQ3$SG;B/;=E3W.:F[ FGWL M+L-[5&Q

6M49#DX4=J='%),

V)&=O11FJ[S; !79Z':M#IT2;=DK#=(W D\_ MIG'X472W&DY:(Y6XT

\A*/);2JF?O%3BF&N

,4L71MP[JW(- / 0?9KJ6(C M5CM'MGBBZ PW%K @HI:*8@P:F48ZTQ1S3\X%`"-TIA.%_2G$

M-/44 Q =.* M"/2DR1UIX'%,D9C%)*?W9YIYR.E1S_ZN@"F.M&*!UI ](1M

&G02SJZ[@8R"

M/KQ_,UCRC#$ G%7M(D\EI9!UVXY]*HRL6D9CW)/ZT= )+(XE8 JU [50M3B M _%7Z$-!C]:3C-+VZTE,8&D/K2FFT %%'-'7B@0V+[KMG@L?\/Z4\ W2HX?] M2I[-D_F:D7I04@-!I*.E(88I,4M%`!

.*8QSTIWY4QJ!#6Y!H!.!2]J:O2@0 MN:2BB@`I*6D[4"#\Z3M2Y]*2@ HI*.U ` M,8TXFF, :`% XI"M.I*FY=ANV MFT\T8HN)Q(Z***0!1110`4M(:7M0-"TAI:0T#8VCIS0:*9F:-I+N*YXQ6FIR M"/7FL"W?9*#VS6W"V0A' XJ)(TB]"T.,-ZTN T.0N!4 SD* L02 /89/Z MFI+)[ 9EST'`I\L X$"HK XVQE(HI) AVNRC@'/3)ZFF/ .JNS",,H!\L,2 MW.?;'''YU2BR 9%"

0XSC!'45GR'`K3GN(Y[ 2.55LE *22#@=1COG]*R)C@ MU:,VR?2X/M.I1(5RH.YOH/\`Z

*]`M% `]JX[PO%FYEE_N@)_7

@KL(&Z"HE MN;4MBY D;!@#- ;XDC N8I!U((_+_P#774SN.YKE_$3;O)(_O'

5$=RI[&-2 M@&D`SVIXK4P'**4GUH XI"10,0_2F=233C@`FD7@4"8['%"Y% SBEZTQ` GU MJ&XXCJ H;K_5T"*?8_2E/WC2`4'K4@6+5]I;W%0M] T

%MISWJ,C'%,0L3;9 M5/N*T E9E:2ME1[T(:%ZB@?2C\J.M,8'WI/PI @4F,]:`&YI&;@G'2GD9!YJ M&?B%S[&@!\8Q#&/]D?RIZ\4$8P/04HR!ZT%" M(*4G%&?:@!/I1GG%'2DH 1 MB,4PTYCDTVD)B4@[BEIH

\:!"YHH[]Z2@ H-%)F@0M-/6EI.XH .]%%%`"&F M=Z U-'6DP0M%%%2:B4M)10(CHHHH)"BBB@`IPI*44#04444BA#3: 1335(AB M#L:U;&4,$'4J1655FSE\MCDX&.:&KBB]3?N [L$B0R/C.!61]I 7OGS!3MW+ MM= JO!&,'Z_I74VL;6UCEU(FD(:0GJ.,A?P'ZFL$6!OM5FC0[%$A9VSC:@4% MC] 'BIBBFRWL [M(K (

6T!+2 8,8##*@+W)QDGW%6I+)+N0RW7,AXX.U=N M``!]/QJ2X@B34IY8H!#RJE5Z #'%.4G(/XT.78%'J5I]+AD!)&Y_[Q)YQT_( M8'X5@ZM \ X+9Q@*/H.G

'X5U #)/UK,BSJ%R]R1

[B.V( IZ%J$V-Q1!X; M#0M,CC:VX''X5T8?`SGFL:TA*L9!P=Q_G5TO)[5+-(JR+$CDY!)KGM9F$DZ1 MCD("3]36A 3.JD(=S&N?W%SO)R6Y)JHH4Y"XIRCFFT]0.*T,QQR.],)IS&F' MK0`T]0/6G&FKRY/I3FS02QPX%' FH QIQ-,0HR:@N\[*F!J"[/RB@"LH'S9_ M#\Z;3ATIM2!)& '%-;-+']ZGW*[;F51C`=@"#D8S3$0FKT+?NDJE5NU.8L A MH&3@_6ESBF=*7/ F,=]*3I1F@ F@`[5'/R@7/5E'ZU(1[5')]

(?[ ?R% $A M&32BD/6E' I%"'K2?TH/?'-%`!2&E[]J:_% #"3G(I*6D-!(N:9T G4TG#"@ M!3TI/I0&W9Q10(2BBB@!*.]!HH 6DHI,T (V,4T4K 4B]*3'' 6BBDJ30*** M48[T"(J**6@D,44M)0``4M)FE% 7%'UI 4G%**+#N&.*80:ES3&IHELCJUI M*W&JV #J6669$8 H)&?TJJ:M:5 BSU:SN7

Y%,C-@9X!Y_2@1WFIWRSHKNB) MM!D=E&,Y]?P`YK+M(K3

PUEDW+=2L)@,\?.Y//T6/]? J6LZA!(/L]L

]&(\ MQE/&P#H/RJO# 2/*&D/#8.WTP `/R J5HBS8A 1+8PLV G=]#W_I

5!8*,D_ MA20%O)5WZD5!O-R[108('#/Z'T%26%Q $QF-(SN $"K6D6P6T@B '

JR?\_C M3X;0(O3)[DU=T

+:4)_A3:1

5!2B4Q#Y4KKZG-,DQT%:5S$`2V.U5#&H/2D4 MT4G4!&8CH*YJ+_5+GK@5UDJ9PN #UKF9D"3R(.S$BM(F4AH]J O':FCKT%/Z M"K)&-]*83@'VIQ. TUN6"T"$CX-2&HQ]\U(:9(SHU2#I4=.4F@!15 [Z"K..

MXJM=G.!2`A09#?0TRI8?XOI49'.*0#D/-#_ IJ]#3R,'YNOH:8AAJS9,`&4U M6-20'#4#+K#TIG3O3D?/!I6 /2F,`:*9T/-.!H$.J-O]?$/0,3

6/ZT

F &Y M'LG]:!C_`.*E'2D'6G'I2*$)IO&: *2@ ICFGYX

E0DY)H$P[T XHHH$!YI MI4-(B%P@9@"S9PON 4XU')T%`#@NTCW4&BD7IS2T"$_&DI:,4 )0*"**`"BB MB@!CT@Z4C'FE%)E1W%I*,TE24%!HHH ;2TE .*"+B_6D-'6BF(*4=:2E'6@!

M13J2BD4+VIC4

FMFF21GK2=Z4]:2F(M0X=U3 0I'/

?K6O#&A ,9

0# Q/H* MPX"PD7:,G(P/6NETVQ9(M]P-S-T7L!4R-(C+JYEG/E6

5W 9'\(]:OV$"PQJ MB# %2I I_AQ5A(@!P 5!HD3[3Y3$ E3*-BJ1W//Y54\S$;J3SC%797&-H[** M"TR*X?$(]3FH0%QSBH[F8%E4 M+NPO-(&R"X/!QP*Y =@UW-Z!L?H*W[Z (C M'/ KE[5M[R, Y8[OSK2)E)EA M#D4N, TQC5DB9S35Y8MGVH8X!I5'RB@EB# M[Q

M2YR.*C')-.CR13$!`IM//7I36'IFD Y E5;ILN!4Q?8I-5"2Q+&@!RML M!]ZC)R T[&%]Z;2 D@ADN)4@B&Z25@B#.,DG`'YU?UVPEL=6F@GPK9!![$8' M(JA'*T)W)PXY4

A[&K KWLFH:C//(Q?+G:3_`' \#\J @BF4"C.Y2/8T@X;- M)_*E-(9,K="*F20U5C;!Q4Q1AT%,"PRAAD4S&.M,20@X-2GYAD&F`@;MS2)S M+(1V51_.C%)%]Z3ZC

5(:'T[M31CKZ4[_"@H3L WO1],XH'%*: (W; Q4=*Y MRV1TI*!"\BD[4?2B@04UNE./-(P

4T (IXXHS2+2T %%%% !24M)WH$%(:7- M,8\4`,/6ES244@3%S13:7-*Q7,+1244AW$I.]%%,@6BBB@`I1UI*!UH`?2]J M;3J!A0 E)2$T"(SUHH/6KVF6#7C[B"$'?U- )7+6A6H9C,4+-G"\ 5U$,6 M%CDU7MK984"KGBKB+Q6;=S:,;$FP`4K#"BF[\=Z;)(=@/M0603$+/&#W;%$U MSM)P 35*\GS )SPO-1JQD; W2@5RU%EWWM

%232A5ZU7$FT=:S[Z\5.IR?3U MIV% @U:YW1F-?XQ

E9=D1YK+ZBGR.TC%V.6/6H[8[;H9'7(K1*QDW=EV0XXJ M+/?-. Y-,S

5,!/O,!V[U+TID8ZD]

*=F@0G\610IPQ%+WS36

]FF( 20:,B MCJ*;0!# MVJ-%

0MZ"B _O* K87'J:E@1$YHI6&.1R*0?K0`Y$+M@#FKD F7 M,RNP3[D9D;V48!/ZBK.F306]MYQ023ERI5C@!?\`]==/K6N:;;V,MOIL:,DT M#Q,0I!Y VG/7'WO\]7H(X::!HE1G&!("5]\''\ZBJTL3RQ ;(X2!&*AF/4GD MA1W/.:BGD5MB1KM1!CU+'N32;'8B'7-7H E0U4:NVY_ _0TT`DJ=Q1$V.,\5 M(PR*A(VM[4 3% ]

*:@`#'U;FEC.1ZTB )

)-,:'`9%.[TWOBG4BA?;O37;: M/ GYQGC%5Y6W'VH$-[4F:**!"T9%%% `:0TM)

- #%]*=31]XTM A ]%)10` M444E`!

5,8\T[M3&/- "4&BB@!****0!2@TE% "44E+0(****0"T=Z04O @8 M\49HI": `FFDYH)I/K0!;TRQ-_=;,[8T&YV]!79VMND,2K$@``QTZ"L'PX!] MGD_VGP?R%=/ 1@8%3)FL$1-&5Y[TJ.&CSW'7V-33@% O-9VYQ.\ 8RSXP*DT M8LTI 01IU/Z474RQQDGH!4GD+:Y+-N ]365 S&YN%C7[H;F@-A%C+YDD_B. M582+//(J01\@'M3G8*F:"3.OYQ;Q]3N/05A22,S%B D]35B_N! 7)8'Y5X'O M[U IC"ME29-RD'M@9R,?B/RK2*,I.X@.1FF [71P K4

1U?"H@7!(+#.6!).

''%$W$8QVJB2=CDTUC3L]343O@@B@IDV,#&:,

M1K-GK4@(;D&F2.%-89Q M2_6B@!4Y6FD4JT,.:!E.?AS2IR, AS1 \/D=:?+"8+DQGE2 RMC[RD9!_(U+ M$MR+;R TX* .F:4=/TI1BH;-8I#D(4 5*Y(R&/3L:AXIQ?/)Y)ZFIN:61'+ MTJ&II 147 KCL8U-P[5:MSB/KWJJ:LVY4)R:I$$_6DP#VI @], 49XJAB$; M10/N#(YQS4 KG:=O)J3I2!!WIP.3FFTY?Y4%"R-M3/Y56YI\S[FQV%1T$L6B MDSS2T `I V*2B@`Q24M)F@0W

*EI&

\*6@`HHHH`*2BD- ", *92L FC'I0` MG:CM2G@8H&,4@$HI /6DI@)12T=*0#*6DI:0@HS110,.:,T44 .-)FE/2FF@ M`HI*7&: -?P],1.\)[_,/Y'

E=A!C:*XO3HFM;NVE/W9@P!KL+4EHP34,VAL M3RX] 5#9;1]I CYMP4'T&,_UI\R%D-4K5V"S`]FP??BI-&)?OE"2 *H6 ?G M/4FI[TERJ

IH@&QB#WYIDLF)POO6-JMX53R5/S-UQZ5IW$RQQL['``R:YB 4 MS3-(?XC

0IQ5R).R(Z,9HI&.`2.M:&0L8!=B.W ITW

J:B-=J@4LN/*;Z4QB MY&T?2H2 FI&/R 5"1B@3'#VIRM@\=:8#S2YH$3K*1]X?C4H96&0:J@\4[( X M/- RQ[YI H]*A7)'W\4K!UQT.:8$-RI!!-=EH=E;:KH]LEW$) J *PX(QQP?

MP_2N-G9FQGM78 #KZ);.*WD;8X+;=W 8;B #

-93V&MR:X\"(

3:WA7)R%D7 M/ZC_``JB_@35$

Y);O\`1R/YBO08N5J1Q\AYJ$VT5 QYM_PA6L9_U4?_`'\% M2Q

!M5?[S6Z?[SG

@KT,/M;:3R03

6/\: Y(''7FF'.SAH?A_*P'VF

C7VC0 MM_/%8OB[0H-"FM$MWD=948LSXY((Z8

M GMCS4)#9#8'''W:XCXF'/\`99(Q MD2_

R4XO43=]SAS5B! H3QQ5 U8@SLP#CFM"2 H!U(%-)0'UI, ]":7J/NBF M`@);H !3Z;TXI:"D.%([;5/K2"HY&W&@!I-)FBB@D6E]Z2B@8I-%)10`IZ4E M' @F@!K]C10_(H'(I"%I#113`3-)I ]:0B@!!2]!F@ II" T -)IQ' /M3 M9IX

Z*0!M I"*=332&@H

E%+0-Z$5 I:2F0%%%%(`S2TE+0`IZ4AI TTTQA5 MG3[5KV\2!2 6/H*K5T7A.(?OYCZA1

6?ZTF.*NR[JUNMO96\H&%MYD/'89Q M6E;N$0`],5-=6?VO3Y83_&I'T- ]=:C+#IP +B=7$+#&0#M.?Y5GN;K0Z0.' M3(-4L;+B08P"`WU/3

@J+0+F2]TX/(075BC8[D8.?R(J6\S%(AS][*_U_I0R MKW5RLX,DX]J= KLB##L:GMX\9 ]:K:G+Y5I*_H"1]:0F8FKW1:0P* !RW

%9 MM!8NQ9CDDY)I.E:I6.=N[%IOWG _.EXHCR MZGBF(D!YI) E"/7BE%(W+#VY MIC!OO?2@\CFD&:,T"&E/2FX(%3CI2,@(Y&* L0YIRMCK0T1'3FFX(I")5. * ML(XZGD 5"9(C;1JJ8D7JWJ/\_P`J:6

7K3&A)_FYJ_:RE-,B;RR&B9V63/!' M!Q]0?YBLZ0_+73

$DCN;"6WG0/$9&X8 RU$]A6N AH?F)]34CMMB9L'@9XJO M;'"*.P`%6#_JV

E8Q+9&V=KX4$8.01[5)[COS4 9W'EAQ@X].* "`QP,9QSZ MU0@ZXZY ... XKD/B'!G0[":0YECF"$

N4.?U45UKNRX[+E GUYKE/B"6_X1RU MW$$_:QR/]UZ:W \]-6+094U7-36I(# #-:B+ .:CD;'3K1N8'&WIVHR"QQU] MZ8Q,;0!WSDT

::X(E4'T/X]*=T& T#0CG XJ*E8YYIO:@3%-%)FCO0(6EI!

M1]:!BT4=J,T`%)2')XSCWJ68QR3.T2")&.50$G:/3)ZT6$1'I2* *4XS35., MB@!V:0T9H- "=N*,8Y- ..!2$T #&FGI2TTT`*O6E7[O/8T)WH'4T@%SQTH/ M2@?RHH 3I11FB@!E&***`$HH[T4""BB@T@#-%%% !71 %V C 9Y,AX_ 5SM; MWA129YCG@;?Z_P#UJ3V*CN=M'_JJXOQ2OEWLF!A7*.? @,"?U%=K$!Y?O6+K M

F?;/*=0,J ,#W%0C=JZ(_"]LUGIS/-]Z8[PI_A[#\

M33M]HOXT7!P2?QP: M2W

T3Q%R`JY('.2 '%%EAK]0@XC5BQ/7)X_Q_*AZ@M%8E8[ #Q]:YS7KP.PM MT.1U;

E; N"2*WD ,_,JDC\*XTL78LQR3U)JHJY,W;02BDHK0Q$8\8[FI4'% M1#E_I4J\ T @Z=:1L_B: _:F$@F@8OTH'+44#B@0Z@T#I2T`(&]:=@'@U&1S M3EZB@!&CP,KS49Z5.?KBDZC!H @;I74 "W_ SI_=E!_,?_6KF9$VCVK \&MB MXN%SUVG

=1/8:W/1K8_(*MCD8K/LB=ISV-7UZ5C$ID2E +C[@V[?Y4Y2QPK' MH

::C!@. GI[&E8C:S$],]_0U2)$ *$+,`%';J.#UQ7, .X7;PR#( M%= M!L

V6 _0BNH;)!! QSVKG_&,9/A6

+K@K*C+

+K_`(T+ #S$U- Y0, 2,] : MA-218P

U;")0Q&6_&I95V2*PYYIUA%!/=QPW5Q]GA?(:7;NV\'''UP/QJ;5 M4@BG"VQD:+:I5G7!/N/8XS0!38YFY["ACGBFJ?WCGV']:,TQB&D%#44""BBB M@!11110,6D/2BB@!O\6/6I &,3N%;:&4,V @= #\ ?RIG6ER0I4$A3@D9X/I M0(3/KQ3.C=: :8W7- "T&CM2$T )1110`E)2FDI .7I1_&? 4#IQ0?O"@ HH MYS10`4&BB@!M)2TA- #31110(6DI:3- !1FDI: #-;_A63;+,G& @_SK!J_H MDQAU% ,_O 5_K_2D]BH[GHD+?**CNB-IQS3+=LH/6H[O=Y;;3SBLCH&:?S8_ M\#?_`-"-L8Q'/ 8ZLX)/MC_`/74NFC_`(ED+8P6#-

;$U%""+

49Y://Y'' M_LU,!-7*_9WS_ .?RK@E

Z/I76

(+AH[60'JPVC\:Y+M5Q,JFX4A/&:6FMV' MK5&8L8XJ6F*,4ZF $T@H/:DS0 M*,TT FGT`+FEIN :7.*!BFCBC-)0`[M33 MQ2T$ ] #9.8S6KX2;&H2C_8!_7_`.O60V0I]*O

&W*:KD Y0@C\14RV$MST MJQR"Y' @_I6C&

21CIWK.LC\HYJ

O\ZYUN:,BDO[6&1HIF4,O7.![TBZE9'A M'4_[N.]-N&5'4,Q!YZ 9_E48DC'/F,N/?_$

U.XK$XU%#*D:Q2G 0,E"`.?7 M%9OC%# %M06,Y*JI./]EE)_04]KJ'[2@,JN=X (8$YR/09J36'8Z)JP)Z6L MN!Q_=;_"FF)JQY$ M/C!. "F=1[5=TB6VBN)# I+)$8R%2-MN6R,9/I_]:MR M0@BWL"1\BG+'

E,E RR$YX%375WYN$BC6&$=$6JNXG@4P$4GYOK3L\4Q?N_C M4@3(R :`&@$]*#3BW&!3* #FEI*6@`S11]** %I*,T4`%%)10`4C44E``*0 MT=*6@!*0TM)0`4AI:3N*`'"D:G4T\BD`'K2TG844`%&:":2@!":0T&DH$%%% M% !110:0!0***8!5BQ?9?V['M(/\*KT`D'(.".AI#1Z-:2!DSFII?F0BN8L- M80&W60X,AQQVYQS72L=T8J-CH3N%DY%FJ 8,?R?ET_3%5XWW:LH[F)L_FM/M M_EG9"?ED&?Q'_P!;

5-QY6I(_JC)G\C_`.RTAF9XJA_T3?Z,/YURM=CXB /I MTPZG::XVKB95-Q::O+Y]*&.!0@XJC,D'Z4$XH[4TG)I@+VI#12&@!RT[O31Q M2YH`7-+2"@B@`S2

E(:!]X4`/%%)G-+0,:XRIJSH(QJ6[ %VH3D

Y _K5 _= M-16\SVUPDT -R'(ST/J*E["/4+-R",,49CT/0FMI 17+Z!K5E?QH@ ),,9B?

'K73(W'%8/1FG0IW@5I/WD \;L#"G@ @-5P($(/V?_P`=8?\`LM6KN%KA M@ [?* _*!

51IIX`QYDIX],4`1

HP5A4$8/7/\`/!J;5D)T?5$48W6\N !@ M9*M_C3O[.1\[T8GG[S\&K ENDL JX"F12K-]0?\`&A"9XDOW1]*?%][BF*?E M'TIT1

N@@E()ZTN`!2[J0G@\TP&+]Q: 7RH!SQQ48_U:TN:`%)I*3K2B@!: M.]%%``*6DHH`6DHI: $HHI* `T44E "'K112=*0"T&DHH #2#K2FD4=Z`'9I M#TXI?I24`(.G%+2#I2]J`$H/-%'2@!M)112$%+BFFEI@+10,]J Z,F-P'- "

7@9-1D4NX

II" ]Z #%&*2EH 7H"?2O28BI@5O49YKS[3X1 7L 1

[]X

X' M./QKK)M6@A0J\BAEXVCK

53(VINQ; 0?;(E!QM)./PQ_4479PZ/_`'7'Y'@_ MH:Q=&NGU'7)'.0BQ':/3YEK OD5(6+=, U&QHFF97B% 6,A4].OTS7*\5UFM MY.ER9'/E\UR57$QF(W) I],7DDTX51 XG I!2=310 4"@THI@.I*.U)WH .

MM.IHS2B@`SS0O+9]!10.I

E "_C2@FDS2T# \U6/#59S4$H

:D)B`XP0 8K3 ML_$&J68"PWDFT=%?YA

M95%)JX79U-OXXU*)MTD=O*2,$E,$_D:G;Q]J!

[; M6P_!O\:Y#-&:7*A\S.DG\;:Q+]V6.(?[$8_KFLF[U _O`1 WDT@_NESC\JHY MI*+(.9BY%/B&6S48Y.!4Z+M&.]4(?36

X1[4M-?[I

E,!/X129I3C:*: : % MI:2EH **** %HHHH`***2@`HHS29I +24?RI*8 :2BBD`4=:3O0:``T9Q]*0 MTO:@! TE(12@]J!!W-+VIO EH&%!H_&B@!E%%%(04"BDH GC4(-[= PIK,2 MD\TS 8)Z4N:+C$-)2FDQ0`E+110(%)1@5)4CH0 4,Q)+$DD\DGO244`=5I+ M0:;$@=T$DJ;]V H./TZ5JHYO]K CR1R6_O PKA;?8UQ$)F*Q%@&(["NCCUF"

MV!B#[@O *CC'M2:ZFT)=&7- E2/3IPQY8;1[DUQ[' J[J5

]_-N/$:_=7

M4 M3RP]J:5B9N[%'%.;@ YI!29R:9 HI324&@`-.7I313ATH 6D_&C-'X4`**=3 M0:6@! T@.&/T%+2 C ?H*8#J*2C-(!::Z[A[TZB@9!AE.2N1W]Z0X["K%)M4 M]J!6*]%3;%]*-BCM0%B$`FGB(GKQ4H&*4&@!%55Z"EHI.],84C_ /TI:1_NF M@0T]!24K4G D`M&:** %HI*6@ HS113 ***/QH *0T9I,T@"@T44`)1124 % M%%)0`=Z ::*6@ I"._ EH- #:7-( *6@0&BEI*0QOO124]5W&@0*N O2E YX M]*5VQP.!3*!C:7-+2'% @S2YIM% "\4AI:,T`)10:!UH` * *:*6F,7.*:O M/-#'`H Z4 +T&:!0QYH%`"TA

M%)0 X=:=312T +1249H 49S2YI!2T`+0."

M:.U(.IH`44M(.E% "T4E+0`4M)0.E PHHHH`**#BCM0(***0]: `TC'B@TC?

M=H 0T4&@8H 6BDHH`6BBB@`HHHH`****``TE%% !29HH)H 2BBB@!#24M)0` MHZ4M(.*,T@%H-)10`$ 449I.U,!:*.U%(!M& XJ0@*F.YJ*@0N:*!1UH&&:/ MK244"%HI** %HHH[4 (:44E*.M #A2TE+3&-;DBG`X%-'6E/7% !U-**3'%% M`"YI*#0*`'"EI!2T`%%%'O0`4HI*2@!

:0=30*!UH 6B@4=J``4OXTWO2YYH M`7-&:2B@!:**2@!:,YI*,TQBFD[T4'K0("::3Q2GI2'I2 #11FB@`HHHH 6D MI:* $ZTM)WI:`"BDZ4M "4E&:#0`9I#2TE "4M)10 4G @T4`%%&:,T`&:,T 244@`FESD4VE7O0`44E%,1__9 ` end From identity_x@my-deja.com Mon Jul 19 14:19:53 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: identity_x@my-deja.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: New on the Block Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 06:50:54 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Lines: 48 Message-ID: 7muhsd$k87$1@nnrp1.deja.com References: 7mtgc4$dks$1@birch.prod.itd.earthlink.net 37925d0c@nemo.idirect.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.172.128.9 X-Article-Creation-Date: Mon Jul 19 06:50:54 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows 95) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x32.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 207.172.128.9 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDidentity_x Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:50973 thought: there is a dif between conveying and projecting your personality.

convey is talking projecting is visual ... black nails and nice suits This is dead on fucking accurate, man. Right on!

You can see so much conflict in the guys at clubs or wherever. They walk around acting like they are the shit, but then they do things like everything other person. Dress the same, talk the same, use the same sayings, etc. etc. How the fuck can someone be confident and cool if they are scared to project who they REALLY are?

Girls will recognize this EVERY time. If you've LOOK and ACT confident, but are otherwise buying into the same social bullshit as everyone else, you're confidence looks fake and contrived.

What are you so confident about? Confident that you can blend in with everyone else? It's such a contradiction.

I thought I was the only one on this group who used uniqueness (sic) and difference as a tactic. I've not gone the route of the black fingernails yet, but I'm still in that arena. Not gothic or anything ... just different.

One of the most powerfull things you can do is to be different, and yet wear your difference with more confidence than anyone else.

It's funny cause lots of my friends are the preppie/ GAP / frat-boy types. They get invited to all the parties, but I get all the girls when we get there!! hahaha! Girls love the oppurtunity to talk to a guy who is different, confident and intelligent. It's a nice change from the fat drunk fuck who's spilling cheap beer on his Tommy Hilfiger clothes.

While those guys are hitting the keg, I'm hitting the beaver somewhere.

Fuck the herd mentality!

Anyhow, good going man. Glad to know I'm not the only tall, skinny, "dark" and "mysterious" type around in here.

Later!

-IX Sent via Deja.com https://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

From mystery@idirect.com Mon Jul 19 14:20:29 1999 From: "mystery" mystery@idirect.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast References: 7mtgc4$dks$1@birch.prod.itd.earthlink.net 37925d0c@nemo.idirect.com 7muhsd$k87$1@nnrp1.deja.com

Subject: Re: New on the Block Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 03:59:26 -0400 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: ts7-33t-28.idirect.com Message-ID: 3792d998@nemo.idirect.com X-Trace: 19 Jul 1999 03:54:00 -0400, ts7-33t-28.idirect.com Organization: via Internet Direct Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!dispose.news.demon .net!demon!europa.netcrusader .net!208.134.241.18!newsfeed.cwix.com!207.136.66.98!cyclone.news.idirect.com!island.idirect.com!nemo.idirect.com!ts7-33t-28.idirect.com Lines: 14 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:50977 I think black nails become more valuable as a personality PROJECTION strategy when worn in places where black nails arent normal. Goto a goth club and it means NOTHING. Goto a cafe and its something to TALK about ...

just have a good answer. I take the intellectual approach ...

HB: Why are your nails black?

ME: I borrowed the practice from our modern day neo-gothic sub-culture. It conveys my rebellion against western culture's religious bias. It's also bitchin *grin* From nathan@metabork.fr.eu.org Mon Jul 19 14:24:14 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!howland.erols .net!newsfeed.tli.de!easynet-fr!buggy.easynet.fr!nathan From: nathan@metabork.fr.eu.org (Nathan SZILARD) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: Setup for patterns Date: 19 Jul 1999 12:08:40 GMT Organization: [Posted via] Easynet France Lines: 124 Message-ID: slrn7p650m.e6.nathan@linuxserver.icommerce-france.com References: 37921ABB.B3D6EAE2@home.com 3792C306.59F97B0D@pop.dnvr.uswest.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.114.83.33 X-Trace: buggy.easynet.fr 932386120 29046 195.114.83.33 (19 Jul 1999 12:08:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynet.fr NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Jul 1999 12:08:40 GMT User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.4 (UNIX) Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:50997 I often ask: do you like chocolate? And strawberries?

(BTW it's amazing how many people are allergic to strawberries) Then I go on to describe how it feels when you dip strawberries in melted chocolate ... when you take it into your mouth ...

etc ...

2 kiss close with it. Did'nt work lately though. I'll have to retry.

On Mon, 19 Jul 1999 00:17:43 -0600, Jake Thomson jakethomson@pop.dnvr.uswest.net wrote: | | | BONZO DOG wrote: | | I'm fairly new to SS, just started the BHSC, but was thinking about | a good setup that would allow progression through many patterns ...

| I came up with a context that I thought was good, but wanted to | run it by the NG, solicit comments, and ask a question or two ..

| | The Setup (WIP) | | Me: I was watching/listening to this woman the other day and she was | talking about how we don't take time to smell the flowers any more.

| | Her: Sure | | You: And you like getting flowers from someone who means something to you, | don't you? It makes you feel all warm and special doesn't it?

| | Her: Yeah | | You: I bet you've got a favorite kind of flower. Don't tell me what it is, I | just want you to think about it for a minute. You know, I was talking with a | friend the other day, and she started telling me about how we don't take | time to smell the flowers anymore. And I thought, but wouldn't it be great | if we did? I mean, can you imagine what it's like to have someone special | just hand you your favorite kind of flower, in person, face to face, and | imagine what it's like to inhale that enchanting fragrance again, right now?

| And as you look into the eyes of that person right there in front of you, | and feel that smile welling up, don't you just start to feel really good, | and begin to feel a special bond with them? I mean have you ever felt an | instantaneous connection with someone? Me, I know I have. It's like I begin | to feel like I've know this person forever, and I was always meant to know | them, and you can just imagine a time in the future, say six months from | now, still feeling that wonderful sense of connection, looking back on today | as having been the start of it all. Can you feel that is a wonderful thing | to experience?

| | Her: (whatever she says) | | | Me: She also said we don't take time to savor the experienes we've | had in the past .. the feelings of love we've had ..

| | - (Insert here) But oh man, when you do! It's like . .

| | | | [go into the Ice Cream Pattern from the context | of an 'exercise' .. to really take the time to enjoy it] | | -- | | I think that you can pretty much bring up any body feelings from | the context of that we don't take time to "smell the roses" anymore.

| And for behaviors like the ice cream pattern, you can put them in | the context of a quoted exercise/example.

| | Does using one context "wear out its welcome?", become to ..

| repetitous? or should use different setup?

| | | Do it as a ratchet pattern. Have your "friend" say, "It's too bad we don't | do or can't do X." And then you say, "But if you could . . ." And then go | on to describe the state you want | | Any constructive thoughts or criticisms appreciated ...

| | Bonzo | | However, try it & tell us what happens.

| | hth | | - | Two guys are walking down the street.

| The first guy walks into a bar, the second one ducks.

| Visit my web page: | https://www.users.uswest.net/~jakethomson | jakethomson@uswest.net | | From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Mon Jul 19 14:24:47 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!dallas-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei .net!newsfeed.wli .net!portc04.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: Setup for patterns Lines: 16 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 19 Jul 1999 12:49:46 GMT References: slrn7p650m.e6.nathan@linuxserver.icommerce-france.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990719084946.04769.00000043@ng-bk1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:51002 I often ask: do you like chocolate? And strawberries?

(BTW it's amazing how many people are allergic to strawberries) Then I go on to describe how it feels when you dip strawberries in melted chocolate ... when you take it into your mouth ...

etc ...

I think this is brilliant :) I am anti-pattern, but I like this brief descriptor as a means to get the chicks concentrated on using their mouths as sexual organs :) I will incorporate this immediately into a front-end of my style. like if the conversation just drops out, I will bring this up to re-strat the conversation and get the ball rolling towards a blow.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Mon Jul 19 14:25:32 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!howland.erols .net!portc02.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: Setup for patterns Lines: 19 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 19 Jul 1999 12:51:55 GMT References: slrn7p650m.e6.nathan@linuxserver.icommerce-france.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990719085155.04769.00000044@ng-bk1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:51003 I often ask: do you like chocolate? And strawberries?

(BTW it's amazing how many people are allergic to strawberries) Then I go on to describe how it feels when you dip strawberries in melted chocolate ... when you take it into your mouth ...

etc ...

2 kiss close with it. Did'nt work lately though. I'll have to retry.

no no no ... don't KISS close with something like this :( get your hands on her and try to get her hand on your dick. the way to use this effectively is to get her to feel the pleasuse of having something in her mouth and then let her know what it is that she wants in her mouth that will give her that pleasurable feeling.

this is not a KISS operner, it's a BLOW JOB opener.

From sandworm@mediaone.net Tue Jul 20 05:44:05 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!24.130.1.14!lsnws01.we.mediaone .net!clnws01.we.mediaone.net.POSTED!sandworm From: sandworm@mediaone.net (Ross Jeffries) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: Mind Power Seduction Message-ID: sandworm-1907992320230001@we-24-130-81-122.we.mediaone.net References: 7mll90$sof$1@nnrp1.deja.com sandworm-1507991709070001@we-24-130-82-44.we.mediaone.net 7mu21h$e5g$1@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net Organization: Sargy Is God X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 Lines: 67 Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:20:23 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.130.81.122 X-Trace: clnws01.we.mediaone.net 932451360 24.130.81.122 (Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:16:00 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 23:16:00 PDT Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:51114 In article 7mu21h$e5g$1@nntp5.atl.mindspring.net , "Hardie"

jhardie@pop.mindspring.com wrote: Ross, Can you post the seven steps?

Thanks, John Hardie I didn't say STEPS. I said SKILLS.

Here they are, in no particuliar order: 1. The ability to build and enter the proper altered state where you believe that ANYTHING can be possible.

2. The ability to visualize vividly.

3.The ability to hallucinate kinesthetically.

4. The ability to manage and control posture/micromovements of the body.

5. The ability to take on different perceptual positions.

6. The ability to properly energize your body AND your thought forms with breath.

7. The ability to utterly and completely close the doors of your attention on the thoughtforms you have created once your "operation" has been completed.

ALL seven of these are requried for good, consistent work. #4 is the missing piece that I got from studying Silva and modeling Dr. John Latourette.

Skills 5 and 7 are, of course, related. Skill #1 is what makes the difference between actual remote influence and just jack-off fantasy.

All the trappings of "magick" and "new age" stuff are EFFORTS to use one or more of these skills; unfortunately, almost every system or book I've seen either leaves at least ONE of these elements out, OR, even worse, layers on tons of worthless crap, stupid speculation, sloppy thinking, idiotic and archaic ritual, etc. etc. It's no wonder most clear thinking people laugh at what is usually presented: IT DESERVES IT!

For GOOD books I recommend: 1. Hypnotism and Mysticism of India by Ormond McGill 2. Secrets of Sex Magic by Frater U.D.

3. Future Ritual by Phillip Farber 4. Liber Kaos by Peter J. Carroll Or come to the Bahamas and learn from me.

- Get Laid NOW!

Ask me how!

https://www.seduction.com Free Newsletters and Real Audio files!

From davidshade@hotmail.com Tue Jul 20 08:34:51 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!206.165.3.11.MISMATCH!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gctr .net!europa.netcrusader .net!207.114.4.11!nntp.abs .net!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news.rdc1.mi.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Message-ID: 3793D100.A9781242@hotmail.com From: David Shade davidshade@hotmail.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: Limits of SS References: 7msnfn$3c2$1@nnrp1.deja.com sandworm-1807991116040001@we-24-130-81-122.we.mediaone.net 37928D1D.CA6635B6@home.com lDKk3.1543$J5.18063@c01read02-admin.service.talkway.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 62 Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 01:29:50 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.2.75.114 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news.rdc1.mi.home.com 932434190 24.2.75.114 (Mon, 19 Jul 1999 18:29:50 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 19 Jul 1999 18:29:50 PDT Organization: @Home Network Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:51090 Maniac: You did it again. Another out fucking standing post.

David https://24.2.75.114:69/ maniac_high wrote: Re: are your looks important for SS/limits of SS.

Whenever this issue comes up, I always think of my "Iranian from Hell" story.

Last year, I was in a Tokyo bar with one of my GFs. And, we spotted on the dance floor, the Iranian from hell. He looked like shit, was fat, ugly as sin, wore clothes that looked like it came from the salvation army, and a worn out baseball cap.

Oh, and did I say he was 45 Y.O. about, and probably didn't speak ENglish, or Japanese ... , and probably had a shit job taking chicken guts out of bird in a processing plant ... or was an illegal who lived in a park or something. This guy was by far the most discusting basket case loser in the place that whole night. As well, in this thoroughly racist country, Iranians are at the very bottom of the barrel, below gaijins, Japanese, Asians..everything..that is as low as you go ... (Japanese perspectives..not mine)..

So what did he do? He went on the dance floor, and hit on *EVERY* chick there. Most (no all actually!), blew him out instantly!

but he didn't give up. He was persistant like fuck, I never saw a guy as persistant as him, he'd get knocked out and was right back in there., and like Mr. Smooth, as long as he got any reaction (good or bad), he kept on hitting.. And he had no wing either, this was a totally solo act..

ANd guess what! He started to get kino on a chick, who totally in his face blew him out a little earlier (he since hit on other chicks), and at first she resisted, and gave really bad looks, but he kept plugging away, and then she relented (she didn't leave), and started to dance with him, coldly at first, obviously not enjoying it. LAter they got closer, and her face relaxed, as he smiled at her and tried to charm her,, (he tried often,and she pushed back), ... and 20 minutes later, they were kissing and all over each other!

Later they left together.. her hanging all over him ...

And the chick was an HB too, 20s, and very cute! So whenever I think I am not good looking enough (I am average), or see some model type hit on chicks that I want, and feel jealous or something I always remember the "Iranian from hell" story ... and remember Its not what you look like ... its what you do ... Always ...

fortunately, for guys, looks has very little to do with the endgame, if your ugly, just get in there, and show personality.

that will work the same as looking like Brad Pitt ...

So dont worry if you're ugly, it just doesn't matter ...

Maniac - Posted via Talkway - https://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything (tm).

From maniac_high@my-deja.com Tue Jul 20 09:12:01 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!dallas-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei .net!newsfeed.corridex.com!hub1.ispnews.com!news-master.service.talkway.com!c01read02-admin.service.talkway.com.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "maniac_high" maniac_high@my-deja.com

Subject: The Iranian from Hell / SS Limits Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast X-Client-NNTP-Posting-Host: maxuser40.crisscross.com/202.217.215.121 Followup-To: alt.seduction.fast Lines: 56 Message-ID: 2%_k3.2055$J5.23807@c01read02-admin.service.talkway.com Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 13:40:14 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.200.3.205 X-Trace: c01read02-admin.service.talkway.com 932478014 216.200.3.205 (Tue, 20 Jul 1999 06:40:14 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 06:40:14 PDT Organization: Talkway, Inc.

Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:51145 Re: the thread about are your looks important for SS/limits of SS.

Whenever this issue comes up, I always think of my "Iranian from Hell" story.

So what did he do? He went on the dance floor, and hit on *EVERY* chick there. Most (no all actually!), blew him out instantly!

Later they left together.. her hanging all over him ...

fortunately, for guys, looks has very little to do with the endgame, if your ugly, just get in there, and show personality.

that will work the same as looking like Brad Pitt ...

So dont worry if you're ugly, it just doesn't matter ...

Maniac - Posted via Talkway - https://www.talkway.com Exchange ideas on practically anything (tm).

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Wed Jul 21 03:46:41 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: I just don't find you attractive ... yet Lines: 37 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 20 Jul 1999 19:24:28 GMT References: 37952d2f.2348034@news.empireone.net Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990720152428.29191.00000172@ng-fk1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:51180 I like women that can take charge of their own lives. I like women that are confident enough in themselves that they know what they want and know how to get it, or at least are willing to try.

Yeah, its just that many of us DON'T want meaningless sex. Thats why we don't approach you ... charming as you may be.

Here comes Kate again ... the only good poster for the women :) That makes sense. I have had girls tell me to my face that they think I am going to just use them and throw them away HAHAHAHA!

It's unfortunate that more women aren't wired for meaningless sex. things

would be so much easier. what is meaningFUL sex anyways? I think meaningful sex is where she gets and orgasm. You think meaningful sex is some expression of LOVE between two people? what is it to you? and yes I remember that you are married so reply in general terms or from when you used to be single.

I am NOT the "take home and meet your parents" type of guy. I am NOT the "raise children with you in kentucky" type of guy. I want ACTION ... NOW! if you are interested in the action ... to-day, then fine. I am even willing to discuss it with you and actually get it on another day. What I will NOT do however is ACT like I want a relationship from a chick in order to get in her pants.

how can I "look like" I want to have "meaningful" sex with a woman instead of looking like I want to fuck the shit out of you as soon as I can get your drunk ass in the bathroom? :) they are too nervous when you are in their faces.

Nervous about the aftermath.

that ties in with meaningless sex huh? so the sex BECOMES meaningless when you find out he only wanted to fuck you and doesn't give a damn what you think about it or even if you want to do it again? what's your point?

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Wed Jul 21 03:57:56 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal11.airnews .net!newsfeed.sgi .net!nntp.abs .net!howland.erols .net!peerfeed.news.psi .net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: MYSTERY on SUNDAY gets a # (A breakdown) Lines: 87 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 20 Jul 1999 19:50:24 GMT References: 3792d7c7@nemo.idirect.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990720155024.29191.00000184@ng-fk1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:51184 I goto a friends house to goof on his computer (I know I know) I didnt shower. I wore jean shorts (just bumming it) and a shirt and sandles and a baseball cap backwords. no gum, no recorder, no dig cam, no pencil, no paper, no NOTHIN'! Just my laptop to show stuff to my buddy ... no intention of seeing girls (which I think in retrospect is a failure cause I SHOULD always be ready for the opportunity ...

I used to just roll out of my house and go outside ... NEVER, NEVER in sandals though hahahaha but that's another issue :) I CAN'T do it any more because of the conversations I have had with women. Your appearance is really scrutinized by chicks, even the way your hair is cut or your glasses or whatever because they LOVE faces. I take care to always do what I can to be as presentable as possible. again this has to do with appearance, not fashion. make sure your "outfit" matches. make sure your shoes or sneakers look as good as possible.

it's worth it not only for how THEY see YOU, but most importantly for how YOU see YOURSLELF! I feel much more confident for some reason having done all I could do with what I decided to wear outside. when I go out bummy, I feel more self-conscious.

you probably would have passed for one with the sandals :) but seriously ...

how good of an idea is it to hang out with the girlfriend of a guy that LOVES to hit chicks ... I think he would LOVE to pound you a couple if he thought you were moving in on his territory.

Dont get me wrong - she wasnt insecure about her looks but once I began with the first NEG "What did you do to your lips? You drew past the lines! Didnt you take colouring in school? haaa haa." She said, "I was eating a burger."

from there on she had no power.

very interesting. chicks tend to go for statements like that. I like to look at their noses until they say "what?" then I say: were you ever in an accident?

So I figure at this point, I have conveyed all I can without going downhill from here (most guys stay TOO LONG with the girl and wreck the first impression by staling out) so I think to myself, "OK, I have Found, Met, Attracted ... so now I must just CLOSE."

excellent point. you definitely want to leave on a high note. make them think the good times NEVER stop rolling with this guy :) in the meantime, do you have a pen? no? ok, Ill get you one and Ill give you a call in a few days and we'll bail out and blade together."

nice presupposition (Have any of you noticed SOMETHING yet? That's right. I didnt bother asking her for her name. You just dont NEED to. The name was on the paper with her #.

I replied to this in another post, but basically names are useless unless you are going to call someone that does not live by him/herself.

I said before she left (her friends were already out the door), its only fair that I trade for this." I took the pen and asked a girl who was with I guy for her napkin. Jokingly, I pretended to wipe that girls face and then return the napkin. "thanks. haaa, just kidding." I wrote my # down slowly as I said to the target, I read ahead to another post where you debate scribbled numbers vs business cards and I totally agree. Business cards are completely lame. there is no personality conveyed in them. they are right there to hand out. it says that you are one in 500 people that I have handed the same card to. they were printed in a print-shop ...

handing out a scribbled number is brilliant (only after she's given you hers that is) because it is personal. she sees you writing it and will remember that when she has it in her hand. you give it to her personally. she owns the ONLY ONE LIKE IT ... you don't even have a copy for yourself. it doesn't look like you EVER give out your number because you have to gather the materials to write with and write on ...

Also, it is written in such a way as to show STYLE for when she shows the # to her best friend maybe.

another good point. convey personality on the scrap of paper as well.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Wed Jul 21 04:03:26 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!howland.erols .net!portc02.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: STRIPPER BOYFRIEND Lines: 39 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 20 Jul 1999 17:17:46 GMT References: 37943638.52468DCF@hto.net Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990720131746.27203.00000112@ng-ba1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:51162

I've wanted to do a social experiment for some time now. I want to get my attractive female friend (about 8.8) and take her to a public place where nobody knows us. Then I walk up to a group of girls, talk for a short while and walk away, guaging their interest in me. Then I send my friend over and have her ask this question: "Excuse me, but do any of you girls know that guy? I think he's really cute and I was gonna talk to him but I didn't know if he was dating any of you."

After she leaves the group, I walk back and start talking again. I wouldn't be suprised if the group of girls started to have a much bigger interest in me then.

Anybody have any more ideas on this?

don't bother with all that bullshit if you have access to an 8.8, take her out with you to a place. sit with her for like 10 minutes laughing and whooping it up like YOU are showing her the time of your life. get some food or drinks or something and just chill with her.

then have her leave. all the HBs in the place will have seen you with her and will be interested in stealing her man or proving that they are more attractive than her by getting your attention or whatever.

basic pivot play. have her come back in like 5 minutes after they have had ample time to make their play. have som more fun, then if you want to, make yourself available to the other chicks.

your idea is a good one, but really too much work. just showing up with an 8.8 is enough to get you credit with other chicks.

I always notice A LOT of looks from chicks when the girl I'm with goes to the bathroom From Hotwater67CLOTHES@hotmail.com Wed Jul 21 04:04:17 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!newsfeed.direct.ca!wn4feed!worldnet.att .net!wnmaster2!not-for-mail From: "Hotwater" Hotwater67CLOTHES@hotmail.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: Some stuff from this weekend Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 21:35:34 -0400 Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Lines: 80 Message-ID: 7n384f$oop$1@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net References: 3793903d@news3.us.ibm.net 379519bf@nap-ns1 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.250.127.144 X-Trace: bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net 932520911 25369 208.250.127.144 (21 Jul 1999 01:35:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Jul 1999 01:35:11 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.71.1712.3 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:51213 (I lost the original post so I'll just tack this on here ... ) I once had a girl say thet to me ("I'm not going to have sex with you") while we had taken steps to be alone. And I just looked at her for a few seconds and said, "Then what are you doing here, alone with me?"

She had no reply. She thought for a few seconds and then leaned over and kissed me and within a few minutes we were going at it with no further words spoken.

YMMV.

- HW (remove clothes to reply) LoOnYDuDe wrote in message 379519bf@nap-ns1 ...

Casey mgurapa@hotmail.com wrote in message news:3793903d@news3.us.ibm.net ...

Good to see you back Mystery ...

snip are grinding ... I mean that's the best way I can describe it. After we dance for a bit, I tell this girl that I really want to have a cigarette, but you can only smoke in the brother's rooms. So I get this girl to come with me to my friend's room ... luckily noone was in there. So I'm having my cigarette, and out of the blue ... she tells me "I'm not going to sleep with you."

This TOTALLY caught me off guard. I just didn't have any answers for it. I remember this vividly ... and how I felt like such an ass because I didn't know what to say. I just said "What?" Then I was silent until I finished my cigarette ... and I just went downstairs. She just followed me downstairs, but I pretty much ignored her. And I don't even know why I did that. Oh, and I hadn't thought about this, but my friend later told me that she might have seen the phone number on my hand ... oh, well.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't just saying "yeah, we probbably shouldn't" (while smiling and then start or continue kissing her etc ;) do the trick.. it's kinda agreeing without saying it's not going to happen ... :) and you'd still find out if she really meant it pretty quick anyway..

snip Anyways, I felt like I was doing well, then this first girls comes over and joins the group. She's now being a total bitch ... just barging in on our conversation ... putting this other girl down ... or trying to. Then she looks at me and goes ... "Hey why don't you show us your dick? Come on ... pull your pants down." Again ... I was totally caught off guard ... what the fuck was she doing to me?

Depending on how much you care what the others present thought of you, you could have pointed out that she had her chance ... or with a big smile just throw it back..

"You show me yours and I'll show you mine" that would have probably got a laugh out of the other chicks you were talking to as well.. I think just keeping up with you confidence here would have pulled you through.. just don't take the shit or roll with it turning it into humor ...

cheers Loonsta.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Wed Jul 21 04:11:34 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!howland.erols .net!portc02.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: Some stuff from this weekend Lines: 101 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 21 Jul 1999 04:15:45 GMT References: 7n368g$dlc$1@nnrp1.deja.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990721001545.22359.00000497@ng-bk1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:51225 First of all Ash ... I respect your opinions and have learned from your posts.

I felt like some of your responses were overly defensive, which is your right of course, but I am here to debate and get us all to the most efficient point ... not attack you.

do you mean to tell me that if a chick tells you over coffee (which is not the case I was talking about here) that she is not going to fuck you tonight that you BELIEVE that she is not going to fuck you tonight?

No. I believe that she wants me to help her reduce her anxiety about the fact that she probably is going to fuck me tonight.

what I am saying is very simple. when a chick comes out with something like this BEFORE you are pulling her panties down, the point is moot. there is no need to discuss anything or respond to anything. act like you didn't hear it OR act like you DID hear it and look in her eyes with no response at all. it's like if a bitch says I'm going to shoot you when she doesn't have a gun.. it's irrelevant ... but when she has the gun ... FUCKING LISTEN when she says she's gonna shoot :) There is an issue of "who you are" that is at stake here. if a bitch tells you that she is not going to fuck and you talk to her about it and agree and all this shit ... you are telling her that you are the type of guy that did not come there to fuck her! you are telling her that what you are doing now is acceptable for the rest of the night! you are telling her that no matter how horny you get for the rest of the time there in HER room on HER bed kissing HER titties that you are willing to go home horny or jerk off or something!

That's an interesting point. I will keep it in mind and try to see how it plays in practice.

that's why I say do not respond. she is just talking shit. in this case, casey wasn't even touching her. she was calling for him to get on her. she was the one imagining fucking him and she snapped out of it and blurted ome bullshit out. all he had to do was make her horny and that bitch would have fucked and sucked IMO.

I stayed on her a while then got up and left announcing nothing. when she asked me where I was going, I told her I was getting on the bus and going to another dorm to hang with other chicks ... and that's the fuck what I did!

That's a fine response if you have the option. I don't think Casey had another potential lay waiting for him, though. So why shouldn't he learn how to bag the option at hand?

I was telling him how to fuck that chick ... IGNORE HER BULLSHIT AND GET THAT KINO WORKING :) Just because you agree with her VERBALLY doesn't mean you change the goal of your ACTIONS. The verbal agreement defuses her resistance, so you can continue. The unspoken message is, "You're right that we shouldn't do this, but I'm still gonna feel you up. You're right that we shouldn't do this, but I'm still gonna take your clothes off.

You're right that we shouldn't do this, but I'm still gonna ream you raw." I contend that by verbally agreeing with her, you DECREASE the chances of getting all hot and bothered for nothing.

I contend that by getting a chick isolated and letting her tell you some bullshit and AGREEING to her bullshit, you are fucking up. are there any lawyers on the NG? what are the legal ramifications of verbally agreeing that no sex is going to take place and then fucking a bitch?

I know what you are saying, but that's that high school "B-movie" porky's typre shit! No baby, we're not going to fuck ... just let me put it in you ...

No problem; if you don't like games, don't play 'em. For people who are still struggling with this stuff (like me and presumably Casey), though, I think it's very instructional to play these games sometimes

just to learn how women will react.

ok you have a point there. since he is just starting out, there is no reason for him to do the most efficient thing ... he may as well learn different styles so he can pick anc choose which he wants to use.

Anyway, didn't you say that the reason you read this newsgroup is because you want to improve your yield? Well, if you reject every woman who has a bout of momentary anxiety or religious guilt, you're reducing your yield for no good reason.

no ... not exactly ... what I said was that my style is too crude and I was trying to smooth it out when I stumbled onto this NG. if the chick has anxiety ... let her have it BY HERSELF! I don't have to be involved.

when a guy wants to kick your ass for talking to his girlfriend, and he says to you "I'm going to kick your ass", do you tell him "OK"? no. you NEVER say OK.

you either butt heads with him or you walk away. same goes here. she says no sex ... go on with business as usual. maybe you leave her, maybe you increase your kino action and let her biology take over her body and mind ... but I totally disagree with saying "OK" to NOT having sex with any bitch :) From thomas_gj@my-deja.com Thu Jul 22 03:44:11 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!207.138.35.59.MISMATCH!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gctr .net!newspeer1.nac .net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: thomas_gj@my-deja.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: The seven SKILLS in MPS Date: Tue, 20 Jul 1999 15:29:02 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Lines: 71 Message-ID: 7n24jb$v2o$1@nnrp1.deja.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.249.210.191 X-Article-Creation-Date: Tue Jul 20 15:29:02 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows 98) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x30.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 195.249.210.191 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDthomas_gj Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:51154 Hello!

I'm glad, that Ross posted the seven skills! I can tell you what to do in 3-4 of them, and I have some questions for Ross for the rest. Let's take them, as Ross did: 1. The ability to build and enter the proper altered state where you believe that ANYTHING can be possible.

Alright. This means (and you must correct me, Ross, if I'm wrong) to enter the alpha state of mind. This is where the brainwaves are slower.

To enter such a state, there's a lot of different methods. I use this: To imagine myself associated in new surroundings. See, hear, touch.

2. The ability to visualize vividly.

As I see it, this means to become good at visualizing without getting distracted from external inputs/senses. Use the imagination - internal senses. IF though you get distracted, don't get angry. Do instead some pacing on yourself as taught by Richard Bandler and John Grinder in Transformation (hypnosis in NLP). This is the way Milton H. Erickson did hypnosis (among a LOT of other techniques and strategies).

3. The ability to hallucinate kinesthetically.

This is the sense of touch. As I said in a prevous newsletter, this sense should be developed first.

4. The ability to manage and control posture/micromovements of the body.

Interesting! To control your own body (not in the imagination?)? How?

And for what purpose?

5. The ability to take on different perceptual positions.

As I understand this one, it means to be associated, AND to see it through her eyes. Is it so, Ross? And if it is: Is it the purpose to think thoughts for her? To get aroused while "in her body"? And maybe to see it dissociated too, I don't know.

6. The ability to properly energize your own body AND your thoughts forms with breath.

I really want to learn that! How is that done?

7. The ability to utterly and completely close the doors of your attention on the thoughtforms you have created once your "operation"

has been completed.

I don't understand this one ... Can you be more specific, Ross?

Does it mean to let it go? To relax, let the fruits ripen after you have sowed?

I believe I have gotten results, though I only knew some of the skills, but maybe I have used them all, I don't know ... I also said what the imagination should be; arouse her, while she is naked, watch her reaction. Is it so, that other imagination-scenerie's should be done?

Which one's?

I think this can be a great group! (If we of course just ignore the bad letter's from those, who has a beef with Ross and the rest of us).

Thomas Gjedde, Denmark p.s. How powerful, do you think this mind power seduction is, Ross, if it is done properly? What about the potential in it compared to NLP- seduction? Of course it would be great to do both!

Sent via Deja.com https://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Thu Jul 22 03:49:17 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: Questions ...

Lines: 19 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 21 Jul 1999 03:52:43 GMT References: 37952B94.81D69041@primus.com.au Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990720235243.22359.00000483@ng-bk1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:51221 Conveying personality is letting the chick see that you are fun person to be with also its letting her know what you expect of this new acquaintance.

Letting her experience meta state also falls under this.

Its comprised of several elements.

1) Humour 2) Confidence 3) Mirroring 4) Anchoring/Kino 5) Capturing/Leading Imagination 6) Passing Slut/Safety/Rape Tests NYC is more qualified to let u know about this as he is the one who uses the words conveying personality:) I agree with your definition. it basically means showing her all the traits that you have that she wants. you elicit her values to tell what she wants then you let her know that you are the man she was looking for.

From mystery@idirect.com Thu Jul 22 03:52:57 1999 From: "mystery" mystery@idirect.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: timing Date: Wed, 21 Jul 1999 21:04:42 -0400 Lines: 8 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: ts7-66t-8.idirect.com Message-ID: 37966cd9@nemo.idirect.com X-Trace: 21 Jul 1999 20:59:05 -0400, ts7-66t-8.idirect.com Organization: via Internet Direct Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!howland.erols .net!nntp.abs .net!cyclone.news.idirect.com!island.idirect.com!nemo.idirect.com!ts7-66t-8.idirect.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:51340 If you have a timer watch, set it to 15 minutes. approach the girl and when the beep happens, try to begin closing. you can tell them also that the beep is for you to get going soon cause you have something to do.

you shouldnt have to work more that 15 minutes. 25 TOPS! 5 is # close acceptable. 15 to the kiss close.

From mystery@idirect.com Fri Jul 23 03:54:02 1999 From: "mystery" mystery@idirect.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast References: 3793cc1b@news.globalreach.net 37948F9E.B7283127@primus.com.au

Subject: Re: Group Openers?

Date: Thu, 22 Jul 1999 05:39:14 -0400 Lines: 65 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: ts7-37t-9.idirect.com Message-ID: 3796e56f@nemo.idirect.com X-Trace: 22 Jul 1999 05:33:35 -0400, ts7-37t-9.idirect.com Organization: via Internet Direct Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!howland.erols .net!outgoing.news.rcn.net.MISMATCH!feed1.news.rcn .net!rcn!cyclone.news.idirect.com!island.idirect.com!nemo.idirect.com!ts7-37t-9.idirect.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:51391 To the hb (or whichever one u like more) (smiling) "Hey your friend has a prettier dress than you"

it's too anatomical - but interesting neg. the neg should be maybe a bit more subtle like you 'unintentionally' had put her down and you didnt know it. "I think you would look better in red." see the dif?

four girls "I am with the tax office" "Did you girls fill in your tax returns last year?"

(gets them thinking, you get your vital seconds with all of them engaged) it certainly initiates chat but does so in an unentertaining way. I like the ball being thrown from left field but the ball is just a plain white ball. Unless you havve funny follow up.

a girl and a bunch of guys "Dudes, what does this girl have that other girls dont?"

hmmmm ... not so bad! I think this is a winner. It NEGS her mildly, initiates chat with the obstacles and when they start complimenting her you will get them all supplicating. then you say to her, "so what do all these guys have that other men dont have? don't tell me ... they are all buying you beers. haa"

a group of guys and girls "Are you guys tourists?"

acceptable. then IMMEDIATELY initiate chat with the OBSTACLES with a ... "I once travelled to Niagara falls ... insert anecdote here that conveys humour and confidence and such."

a guy and a bunch of girls "Hello everybody, my name is Mr Dolittle" :) reminds me of a good neg.

Your name is sally? may I call you sally? well then, you can call me Mr. Poopee pants.

seriously, Ive used this to good results. this works on a 10 when she has 2 or 3 girlfriends around her. they all laugh and you arent treating her like you LIKE her ... but you get bonus points from the friends and make the Target want to pursue you to see if you are like the other guys and will supplicate (which means she starts chasing YOU ... how many guys would have the guts to say this unless he didnt really give a shit ... but then if he doesnt give a shit, he must get the girls) I'd love to see a good discussion on this topic.

hahahah Humour works in ANY situation when in doubt go for humour, when sure go for "patterns" and whatever other technique s u have.

convey personality ... once you have you DECIDE to phase shift into the CLOSE if you do a # close ... do that but if you decide to kiss close, go into a connection pattern and THEN kiss close ... this gets her in the mood.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Sun Jul 25 11:01:24 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.cwix.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: How can I handle "are you seeing someone else?" ??

Lines: 119 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 25 Jul 1999 14:15:34 GMT References: LWCm3.5548$J5.60930@c01read02-admin.service.talkway.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990725101534.16965.00001166@ng-fo1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:51927 How can I handle "are you seeing someone else?" ??

I read ahead a little. it all depends on WHO YOU CREATE YOURSELF TO BE! it all depends on the character you make up and play out in front of the girl.

you have to decide this after eliciting her values though. once you decide it, you need to play that role.

for instance, the role I play if I don't know ANYTHING about a chick is I just have female friends and hang out with them whenever we both feel like it ...

never mentioning anything about sex. that leaves it open for her to become a FRIEND like the rest or try for more in which case she will have to convince me of her skills :) Here is a question that comes up now and then, looking for you guy's/gal's opinions on how to handle it..

I am laying a chick. I like laying her and want to continue to.

After a couple times, she will ask me if I am seeing someone else.

(my hunch is that when I am out of the bedroom for a moment, she snoops it, and finds "evidence" (hairs, whatever ... )).

Usually, I ask her why she asks and she gives me some bullshit fake reason, and then I end up having to directly lie to her and say "no", and some various bullshit.

why do you ask? HAHAHAHAHAHA that's not valid at all hahahahaha. how much of a LIAR do you look like as you stall for time with "why do you ask?" hahahaha that's what I mean. you have to KNOW who you are to this chick. you have to remember at all times in the back of your mind that you are "seeing" 5 chicks but are not fucking any of them or you are seeing one other chick and fuck her EVERY NIGHT THAT THIS ONE ISN'T FUCKING YOU :) you get different results. if you say you know more but aren't fucking them, she feels special, but she knows that they are waiting in the wings so she NEEDS to not fuck up :) if you say you ARE getting laid when she's not there, she will either try to hold out on you which would be foolish ... OR she will want to have you all to herself, in which case you explain that you have this tremendous sexual appetite and need to get it every night.. if she wants to be there for you every night, you will cut the other one off for her. she gets the option of upping her sexual performance in order to get an "exclusive" relationship.

Now of course, my expectation is that she will keep snooping and try to find some more "evidence" and generally be a pain asking where I was all the time from then on, and be suspicious, and blah blah.

so what? it's none of her business In my only instance of telling the truth the answer to this question once last year (on a chick I was looking to blow out anyways ;-) ), she freaked out, and I never saw her again..so I guess the truth is not the right way to go if you want to keep the chick..

see above. if she is the competitive type, she will increase her time with you to weed out the other bitches. besides it's HER FAULT that she's in this situation. she should haev asked that BEFORE fucking you if it meant that much to her.

So far the only way I have found that works, is say "no, not seeing anyone", then be the absolute ideal guy for her for about 2 weeks, then send her a sayonara email saying that I met a new girl and that since I am not a player I have to break up with her (chick A) now since I dont believe in playing girls behind other's back ... blah blah Then she will plead how she loves me and blah blah, and she wants to see me anyways.. Then I reply that I am not commited to the new chick yet and I am really confused, so we can still meet, but the rules are that she cannot ask me where I am, and snoop the house and stuff like that, and rather she just enjoy our time together ... Then I continue meeting chick A like before..

that's a pretty good style :) I like it. I am into speed and action so I can't wait two weeks for SHIT :) but I understand the idea behind it and it is good. I still prefer the casual relationships angle with her being the sexual one out of them ... that way she can't prove whether you were at the movies with your FRIEND or fucking ... or ... at the movies fucking :) That seems to work for a while, and then she cant bear all the suspicion and asks me again several weeks later, and then I follow the above routine again and get peace again for a while..but eventually I get sick of the latent suspicion (which I can sense from her), and blow out the chick because its too much shit..

I avoid suspicion by letting chicks know that I'll fuck any chick that I feel attracted to that wants me. kind of a male slut angle. it's not my fault. I live women too much to settle :) for me, since my initial angle with them is friendship and we share information about each other, they know how I feel about women in general so that if they let me get my hands on them, they know what is going to happen and they know what it means to me. they can't complain about exclusivity because they got with a guy that was only out for fun to begin with :) it is also FANTASTIC for quoting purposes.

I like to quote my own sexual experiences with the other chicks I'm seeing (no names of course or she would be afraid that I would tell HER business in the streets with her name attached to it) to the girl I'm with at the time. she thinks about the situations with me fucking and I get to tell her how I like sex and talk all this shit and she can also remember us being together and it gets really hot really quickly. Then again, I am the joker, I am the bad boy.

no chick EXPECTS me to be faithful to her anyways. it's gonna be a bitch when I want to get married ... but until then ...

So I am still looking for other/better ideas (that work) on how to handle this and have a (very high) chance of keeping the chick, and the other chicks I am doing too without freak outs, and chicks leaving..

An option would be to somehow find out first if the chick minds if I do other women before I lie to her, not sure how to go about it though, even though in almost all cases, chicks mind about this..

Any opinions from other players (or chicks) who have gotten over this hurdle on how to handle this question/issue when it comes up?

just leave the fucking part out. let her be as suspicious as she wants. you have friends and you spend time with them. still ... play her on an angle of "you aren't always there for me when I need you" so that she feels like the reason that she doesn't have your full committment is her neglect of her sexual duties :) From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Mon Jul 26 01:38:47 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: (Real) chick logic humor stories!

Lines: 115 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 25 Jul 1999 13:29:56 GMT References: yVCm3.5545$J5.60899@c01read02-admin.service.talkway.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990725092956.16965.00001158@ng-fo1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:51922 Chick Logic Humor!

Here a few humourous instances of all too common "chick logic"

(fucked up logic that makes sense only to chicks) that I have encountered recently. Enjoy ... its all real BTW ... ;-) I have to say up front ... thus was some of the funniest and most on-point shit I have heard to date from this NG :) 1)I invite a chick over for supper. She refuses and says she is busy as she has an appointment with her friends that evening, but lunch is okay. She comes over, we have lunch and I lay her. She ends up spending the night. I ask her the next morning what happened to her friends and night appointment. She replies that she didn't really have an appt, but just that if she came over for supper, she would probably have slept with me.

I told her, "but you came over for lunch and slept with me anyways.."

Chick replies "that was different, because I didn't expect that!"

not exactly the same, but I tell a chick that I want her to come over to strip for me and have some fun ;) she declines my DIRECT OFFER OF SEX! I told her specifically what I wanted to do when she came over and she DECLINED. Instead, we go out to a bar for lunch. She gets shitfaced and we go back to her place and do everything I wanted to do except for stripping!? WHAT THE FUCK? it was no more than three hours between the phone conversation and us making out (delay due to time for lunch and drinking etc.) you would think that by her disinterest in coming to my house and fucking that she didn't want to fuck at all :) I think she was suffering from that "chick thing" where if she replied to a direct offer, she is a SLUT, and if it happens by some SUPERNATURAL MAGIC (read:alcohol), it is a wonderful thing and she is NOT a slut.

and for those of you that will attempt to argue that she didn't know what she was doing ... she knew what I wanted, so she SHOULD have takens steps NOT to get drunk and fuck if that's what she really wanted. PLUS I stayed over at her house and we had breakfast then I dropped her off at work and everything was regular.

that "I didn't expect it" shit is a bitch isn't it? you can't DIRECTLY tell a chick to fuck but if she gets SWEPT AWAY in the moment, it's fine :) that's why we are here ... to learn how to SWEEP THEIR ASSES AWAY by design ;) 2)I lay Ms. Kinky (remember her?..see lay report), and I ask her her phone number.

She gives me her portable number, and tells me she doesn't have a regular home phone (many people dont actually, in Japan). I lay her a few more times, then I spend a night at her place. She has a home phone there.

hahaha I have a quasi-similar idiot chick story like that. I met a chick in the subway and requested her number. she gave me her pager number under the pretense that she has no home phone. I page her the next day and she calls me OBVIOUSLY from inside an apartment :) I set her up saying "Where are you, your sister's house?" she says "NAH ... I'm at home."

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA fucking crash test dummy!

I ask her why she didn't tell me the truth. She replies that there are many people you can't trust out there, and her friends told her to not give her phone number to people she didn't know well because you can never know what might happen.

I reply jokingly "oh, I see, so then you always let people you don't know tie you up and fuck you, and you spend nights in their places on the first night out,, who you don't trust enough to give them your phone number because your friends told you to be careful of strangers and what might happen to you".

that's the fucking truth man ... it's ridiculous :/ hahahaha. it's like they

think "do what you want to me one time, but I don't want you to have the option of doing it ever again, because receiving multiple phone calls from you and possibly having to change my number is way worse than potential rape or death :) fucking idiots :) She replied a joking grin back, and gave me her home number.

3)A chick I know who is just a friend in another city. I am going to that city, and ask to stay at her place. She tells me she has to ask her out of town BF first before I can stay there, because she will feel guilty if she doesn't and some shit about trust in her relationship with her BF.

She asks the BF, its ok, and I get the invite 2 days later and I show up that week. That evening when we are talking, she tells me she is fucking another guy behind her BF's back on weeknights when the regular BF is travelling on business.

I didn't even ask about why she had to ask permission to her 'reg' about me then. ;-) I have your answer to that one. she has an understanding with the EXTRA guy.

he knows how to play it when the BF calls so there is no reason to worry.

since you and she are friends, she would feel bad having to SUDDENLY kick you out if he came over unexpectedly. plus she probably fucks other places than her place with the extra guy. plus people might have seen you and her coming out of her place together and she needed to cover her tracks ... if someone sees YOU and tells the BF, then he's going to be suspicious and eventually catch her and her extra ... then again ... I am a guy ... I use logic ... never mind :) truthfully, I think the reason is that she was willing to ADMIT that you were there and NEVER ADMIT that the extra guy was ever there. I am (even though I claim to be quitting) over chicks houses all the time when they ignore their BFs calls when they see him on call waiting :) or I lay there trying not to SNEEZE while she tells her BF some bullshit lies about where she was all day and who she was with and WHY she doesn't feel like going out with him tonight :) So there you go, chick logic humor for the night ;-) tremendous man ... I don't know why _I_ didn't start a thread on ridiculous inconsistancies from chicks. I guess I am so used to it that I don't even consider it abnormal when they do wacky shit :) From mystery@idirect.com Mon Jul 26 22:57:13 1999 From: "mystery" mystery@idirect.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast References: 7n68dq$hor$1@nnrp1.deja.com 19990722105233.02095.00001054@ng35.aol.com 7n7enn$n9k$3@gxsn.com

Subject: Re: Lay report ...

Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 17:33:50 -0400 Lines: 21 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: ts7-46t-11.idirect.com Message-ID: 3798de62@nemo.idirect.com X-Trace: 23 Jul 1999 17:28:02 -0400, ts7-46t-11.idirect.com Organization: via Internet Direct Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!cyclone.news.idirect.com!island.idirect.com!nemo.idirect.com!ts7-46t-11.idirect.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:51647 Perhaps Mystery can improve the conjuring bits?

cigs are natural props in a club scene. so are beer bottles. I have approached an entire table of girls with an empty bottle and spun it in the center of the table saying, "anyone up for a friendly like game?"

That is the OPENER and then I talk about another game called HOT SEAT.

use natural props in your routines. You KNOW what PROPS will be in the scene so prepare so it looks spontaneous.

Goto the library and learn sleight of hand with cigarettes.

not with cards coins or rope or coins. those arent COOL props in a public gathering.

cigs are still considered COOL though ... natural.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Mon Jul 26 23:08:02 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols .net!portc02.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: We all have our handicaps Lines: 41 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 24 Jul 1999 15:09:04 GMT References: 19990722183709.20891.00000158@ng-fe1.aol.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990724110904.26088.00001085@ng-fp1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:51791 How many women do you approach to get a number? How many numbers to get a meeting? How many meetings to get a lay?

at 1) club 2) on the street.

It all depends on your style of weeding out chicks. If you are only approaching girls for their bodies and you will fuck them regardless of their minds or number of kids or whatever, then you are AIMING for 100% number retrieval. however, if you are looking for something like a chick that is not taken or not divorced or not as old as she is or doesn't work as much ... you have to get to know her for a minute or two before you decide if you want her number at all.

If your question is on the average, how many chicks do you approach before you get one number it depends on the signs you look for BEFORE you approach a chick. if you look for her to be interested in you, you will have a high precentage. if you look only for what you want, you will run into the barrier of what she wants A LOT ... but you will approach more women so the lower percentage of a higher number evens out. It also depends on your personality and what you are offering a chick. I guarantee you the guy that says "I want to take you to tavern on the green and on carraige rides in Central Park" will get the number a higher percenatage than the guy that just likes her and wants to meet her. So if you want to increase percentages, just make sure you SAY you want to give the girl what she is missing.

This is a good question though. I will start to research what it takes to get numbers ... personally, I am not interested in numbers because if the chick isn't interested in me sexually AND seems like a good lay, I have no need to call her in the first place and if she is interested, I'm going to try to isolate her ASAP on the spot and see what I can do :) As far as how many meetings to get a lay, I don't see any reason NOT to get laid on your first date with a chick. as long as you have explained to her what you like from women, she should be willing to do that for you. if not, you took the WRONG woman out :) OTOH, if you are talking about how many women does one meet before one wants to fuck, it depends on how you present yourself.

If you present yourself as a guy that likes to fuck women, they will either stay or leave. the ones that stay will get with it and the ones that leave ...

fuck em they were a waste of your time anyway.

the whole question is vague, but you can tailor your style to achieve desired results.

From nightlight9@hotmail.com Mon Jul 26 23:22:28 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!206.165.3.11.MISMATCH!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gctr .net!newspeer1.nac .net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: nightlight9@hotmail.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Field report: The biter (or Sucessfully defeating a bitch sheild.) was: Re: To Mystery: Bitch Shield?

Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 22:00:09 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Lines: 53 Message-ID: 7nilp4$26i$1@nnrp1.deja.com References: 7n92jc$cjm$1@triton.dnai.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 131.107.3.77 X-Article-Creation-Date: Mon Jul 26 22:00:09 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows NT 5.0) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 RED-PRXY-07, 1.0 x22.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 131.107.3.77 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDthemagus Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:52121 I rarely post outing reports, but I figured I would since this one relates directly to the bitch shield.

2 weeks ago I hit a local bar with a bunch of friends and aquaintences. One other guy is a player.

Anyway, we did some approaches on girl pairs for fun (I was mostly the one jumping on the handgrenade, because I wanted to practice initiating and controling conversaion, more than I was actually looking to get laid since I didn't really see anything I liked). Anyway as it gets closer to closing time I see a girl (8) who I thought was cute but had been with another guy early in the evening (who she obviously knew).

She was now by her herself at a bench on the wall and I was about 20 ft away with 3 friends at a table.

I make eyecontact and waved her to come over (In my experience this never works except with girls with no self respect, so it's sort of test on my part) She gives me a look that says, "Yeah right".

I get up and walk over to here (about 3 seconds since the initial eye contact. I sit done at chair as close as I can without being rude right in front of her (between two tables so I'm a little off to the side).

She has the total bitch sheild up, but she isn't looking away. I say "So what brings you to "bar X" (but the key is I have an ear to ear grin). She says her friend got married. I keep asking her really bland questions about what she's doing, but with this huge smile (almost a caricature). After about 5 of these questions, "I say what do you do?" But then before she can say, I say "let me guess"

(looking quizical for a few seconds). I say "your a lion tamer aren't you?" She imediately goes for it (every girl I've ever used this on has loved it and it's yours here royalty free :-) She still hasn't smiled during this whole time. I run with it. "Do you stick your head all the way in the lions mouth?" "That must be pretty risky." Still no smile at all but she is going allong with it.

Then it happens. I feel here ankle brush against my leg. It's all over, smile or not. I put my hand on her knee. She smiles a few minutes later.

We keep talking but with every sentence I move a little closer.

Finally we are about 6 inches apart and I ask her question, and as soon she can answer I kiss her lightly. Then I ask another, longer kiss.

Then I kiss here before she can answer a long real kiss.

We take a break and her male friend comes back. I start talking to him imediately. Very friendly. After about 5 minutes of conversationtion, she tells him she wants to leave with me. So we go for a walk ...

The moral of the story is: As mystery always says, the only way to defeat the bitch shield is with a smile (and lots of eye contact).

Good luck, NightLight9 Sent via Deja.com https://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Mon Jul 26 23:25:22 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!howland.erols .net!portc02.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: What to do if guys are trying to fuck up your style..

Lines: 35 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 24 Jul 1999 16:30:06 GMT References: 3798409C.A7507E80@primus.com.au Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990724123006.13322.00000995@ng-fr1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:51816 As far as you are concerned the girl has to be entertained by you. If she sees other guys as being more confident and more entertaining she most certainly will excuse herself to the bathroom or the bar to hook up with them later.

That's why its important to work quickly so that you do not take more time than is necessary to secure a chick (take her home or spend some quality KINO time with her on the couch/dancefloor somewhere).

Getting numbers on their own is unreliable.

that's the most important thing. speed. there needs to be speed in your seduction. I missed a great op the other day. I was at my friend's office and this chick came out of nowhere to give my friend some materials and saw me and introduced herself. I said hi and I could see in her eyes that she liked me already. I wasn't really concerned so I really wasn't in full attack mode. I started talking to her about vacations and giving her the whole "we are so alike" lines ... after a while (oh my friend had left us in his area) I had decided that I liked her and wanted to know more about her and was willing to take her to coffee ... but I didn't say that :) I fucking thought I had all the time in the world, then a friend of hers passed by then another and another.

suddenly I'm in this GROUP of people that know each other and I was like oh shit! :) I had gone from a perfect extraction to a group where I couldn't inconspicuously extract her again. the reason I couldn't was it was my friend's job and I didn't want to make any waves for him. she was still in the group when we left for lunch (she had already gone is why we didn't invite her along) and gave me a nice look as she was telling me bye and she hoped to see me around :) fuck! no matter ... I'll get my friend to bring her out some other time.

the point is just what you were saying. there is a need for speed. at any time, her bus could come or her train stop could come or her ex-boyfriend could come or her CURRENT boyfriend could come ... your stage could change DRASTICALLY and immediately. as soon as you decide you want her, let her know you would like to see her again and get her number, or if you think you can get her that day ... extract her from random occurances ASAP From JackPgh@bigfoot.com Mon Jul 26 23:27:58 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.nyu.edu!newsfeed.sgi .net!news.sgi .net!not-for-mail From: JackPgh@bigfoot.com (JP) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: "25 Opening Lines to Use on Topless Dancers"

Message-ID: 3798a08c.1827001@news.sgi.net References: 37988fcd.2335838@news.nuthinbutnews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 27 Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 17:19:03 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.166.130.96 X-Complaints-To: abuse@stargate.net X-Trace: news.sgi.net 932750490 209.166.130.96 (Fri, 23 Jul 1999 13:21:30 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 13:21:30 EDT Organization: Stargate Industries, LLC.

Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:51598 singles-expert@getgirls.com wrote: I'm not sure if this group would be interested, but I would like to share some valuable information on 25 opening lines to use on topless dancers: Snip Ok so now you've given twenty five lines that AFC are going to use ...

I have two words for people fishing at strip clubs: Social Proof Use the same concepts that you use with a group of girls. i.e. Get the obstacles to accept/like you.

What do I mean? Talk to the bartenders, doorman, etc. Get them to accept you, and the strippers will follow.

Does one of the strippers have a boyfriend/driver in the club? If so then talk to him. Remember, if he thinks you are cool/accepts you then the strippers will just naturally accept his good opinion of you as being the gospel.

To quote/paraphrase that lame Drew Barrymore movie: "All it takes is one person to think you are cool and you are in." (And no, that person should not be Ray.) From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Mon Jul 26 23:29:10 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!howland.erols .net!portc02.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: Scouting report Lines: 27 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 23 Jul 1999 22:07:26 GMT References: 932744331.706996@cockatoo.alexia.net.au Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990723180726.13319.00000592@ng-fr1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:51658 Gives an ideal opportunity to ask if they've spotted the ideal guy yet.

After that it was to get descriptions of the ideal guy (and one girl even had a photo of some guy from the "Back Street Boys" and said it was that type and nothing else. ;) Ermm.. getting her to imagine being stranded on a desert island with just one guy, and to describe him. Got good opportunity there to anchor to shoulder touch and attempts to find out if she was Visual, Auditory or Kine. One or two mild cases of the "doggy dinner look" and heaps of good rapport with eye contact and stuff. Even tried mirroring. Never got to the close.

Friend always messed things up.

Ah well. Theres always next time.

g'night all.

Excellent technique :) I use that all the time. if I can't get her to be interested in me, I go into the "find you a guy" routine. since she thinks I'm helping her to find what she wants, she greedily, hungrily describes her dream guy. then I get her to describe what he's wearing, how his hair looks, how his voice is, what he says to her, how his chest feels, how she feels in his arms ...

she gets all worked up and then there IS NO GUY LIKE THIS AVAILABLE :) Even if there is, if she had the guts to talk to him she would have already :) to the victor goes the spoils ... I guess :) From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Mon Jul 26 23:30:14 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.cwix.com!205.252.116.205!howland.erols .net!portc02.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: Scouting report Lines: 41 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 24 Jul 1999 14:44:01 GMT References: 379918EC.908F3D59@pop.phnx.uswest.net Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990724104401.26088.00001073@ng-fp1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:51783 Would you explain how you go about linking that to yourself? IOW, what do you do, so she realizes that there's no such man around, and that you are the best option of those available.

Thanks, Pablo that's the beauty of it all ... you don't have to do SHIT! she anchors to you visually since she is looking at you as you describe this stuff to her.

I was talking to this chick last night and getting her to describe the guy she called "the only guy I am willing to sleep with" she ended up saying "he's a sweetie ... just like U :)" now ... there is no way that she knows I am a sweetie. what happened to her is that I ask her the right questions to get her meta-stating ABOUT someone that makes her feel the way she likes to feel in order to fuck. she thinks about and experiences the feelings, but WHO is she talking to? ME. basically she gets confused and thinks she is feeling that way about me when she is actually feeling that way about a guy that fucked her last month or last year or the best or ate her out or whatever.

It's the same thing with the "guy she likes in a bar" scenario. if she likes HIM, but is talking to YOU, it probably means she doesn't have the GUTS to approach him fearing a rejection. you can get her to think about him all night if you want, and he'll remain a living fantasy to her. meanwhile ... she is getting horny in general AND you are the one making her feel the way she does.

just by being with you and seeing you and hearing you and touching you, she gets these feelings ... basically she transfers what she WANTS from the guy over to you.

The other benefit of this style is that girls will admit their horny behavior when you are NOT talking about yourself and you ARE talking about some movie star or something ... for instance: me: what would you do if Keanu walked in here right now?

her: I would seduce him any way I can me: what would you do to seduce Keanu?

next, she spills the beans about what she would do to convince a man she REALLY WANTS to be with her.

From mystery@idirect.com Mon Jul 26 23:34:01 1999 From: "mystery" mystery@idirect.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: BEGINNING, MIDDLE and END Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 14:53:39 -0400 Lines: 56 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: ts7-64t-6.idirect.com Message-ID: 3798b8d7@nemo.idirect.com X-Trace: 23 Jul 1999 14:47:51 -0400, ts7-64t-6.idirect.com Organization: via Internet Direct Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newshub.northeast.verio .net!cyclone.news.idirect.com!island.idirect.com!nemo.idirect.com!ts7-64t-6.idirect.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:51605 Having problems with extracting values and criteria. Also stall from time in between approaching and closing.Sometimes I'll just jump into a close when I stall. Also I tend to get to impatient to go for a phone # and lose sight of an outcome. Need to write out a few more scripts.

I dont think you really HAVE to extract values from a girl. YOU do the conveying and negging.

approaching will always get stalled by the aware state for the first 3 approaches of the evening. thats what keeps men from getting the girls but I promise by the 4th girl of the day you get way into the groove for the rest of the exciting evening.

closing will stall when you dont realise that you will succeed with the close if you have witnessed 3 positive indicators. You JUMP into a close before you have evidence to support that the close will be successful. NEED those + indicators I really am onto something. My method is so good now.

I like to KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid) ... Every approach has a beginning, a middle, and an end.

the more BEGINNINGS you have in a day the more middles you are likely to have.

the MIDDLES you have in a day, hte more experience you will get to get to the END.

BEGINNING preparation ... clothing, gum, props initiate an entertaining and interactive conversation (that is what an OPENER is all about) MIDDLE using entertaining stories and routines, you convey the humour, confidence and the other typical attractive traits (If you want to know what they are, write down the traits of YOUR dream-girl and then convey THOSE traits to the girls) use NEGS to make them chase you test them (stop conversation to see if they reinitiate it) and look for the indicators to see if closing is worth doing (like KINO, pos body language, laughter, etc) END close or eject based on the indicators.

decide on either the kiss close or the # close.

if pressed for time, just # close ... but try to kiss her goodbye on the LIPS if you have a little time, always KISS CLOSE.

Mystery From dc_guy@my-deja.com Mon Jul 26 23:36:10 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news-peer.gip .net!news.gsl .net!gip .net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: dc_guy@my-deja.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: My opinion on group approaches Date: Fri, 23 Jul 1999 22:19:05 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Lines: 67 Message-ID: 7napoi$fa$1@nnrp1.deja.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.65.99.233 X-Article-Creation-Date: Fri Jul 23 22:19:05 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x22.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 63.65.99.233 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDdc_guy Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:51676 hat's up everyone!

First off I just want to give a shout out to mystery for all his great posts lately :D I was just reading all this talk about approaching groups of girls. This is what I think on the subject.

I think the most difficult approach is when you approach two 8s in a club by yourself. First off, I think 8s BY FAR get hit on the most at clubs. They think anything is a pickup ... it doesn't matter if your just asking where the bathroom is ...

they'll probably think it's a pickup.

In my opinion one of the easiest pickups are when you approach a HB with an UG by yourself.

If you go by Mystery's rule of starting with the UG ...

then your set!

I'm serious! Prime example ... Just last night I was at a club ... and saw a HB (10) and a UG (4) on the dance floor.

So I go right up to the UG and don't even look/glance at the HB.

I *SMILE* and start to dance/chat with the UG. As expected ...

the UG is very happy! She smiles and happily starts dancing with me ...

Everyone is having a GREAT TIME! well ... not exactly everyone ...

of course the HB sees her friend dancing and *SMILING* and having a good time ... but she is somewhat disappointed ... she sees her friend having a BETTER time than she is ... She wants to be part of the FUN ... In her mind ... She should be the one getting the guys ... Right? That is what SHE is used too ... but instead ... she's stuck dancing by herself ...

It drives her crazy ... she thinks "What is going on?"

So what does the HB do? The only thing she can think of to get my attention ... She starts GRINDING with me out of nowhere!

((I wasn't grinding with the UG)) Picture Perfect!!

I think groups of around 5 girls are fairly easy to approach.

I don't think you have to entertain them ALL. I don't think you need to entertain everyone in a group this big ... what I do is I pick one of them ... most of the time it's the one who I'm initially closest too and just start to chat it up ... Now the girl you approach might not be very interested in you but as long as you look like your having a good time and your not getting completely blown off ... by god ...

IF THERE IS A GIRL IN THE GROUP WHO FINDS YOU ATTRACTIVE..

SHE WILL MAKE HERSELF KNOWN. She'll either give you very strong eye contact ... or she'll try to join into the conversation.

or she'll approach you ... This has happened to me several times ...

Just last week ... I remember approaching a group of 5 girls and I started chatting just with one of them ... we were having a *nice* chat ... but she obviously wasn't very interested in me ...

but I kept *SMILING* and showing a lot of energy ... and guess what happened??? one of her friends decided to playfully touch my ear to get my attention ... so I switched off and started talking and flirting with the girl who grabbed my ear ... and within five minutes I had gotten her phone number ...

Just some thoughts of the day ...

Charlie Sent via Deja.com https://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

From nightlight9@hotmail.com Mon Jul 26 23:42:54 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal11.airnews .net!newsfeed.sgi .net!newsxfer.visi .net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: nightlight9@hotmail.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Article on smiling (loosely related) Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 21:17:10 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Lines: 9 Message-ID: 7nij8f$fs$1@nnrp1.deja.com References: 7napoi$fa$1@nnrp1.deja.com 19990723202501.13317.00000675@ng-fr1.aol.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 131.107.3.72 X-Article-Creation-Date: Mon Jul 26 21:17:10 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.01; Windows NT 5.0) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 RED-PRXY-02, 1.0 x41.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 131.107.3.72 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDthemagus Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:52118 Thought it might be of interest to some.

NightLight9 https://women.msn.com/women/style/article.asp Sent via Deja.com https://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Mon Jul 26 23:46:16 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!howland.erols .net!portc02.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: My opinion on group approaches Lines: 44 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 24 Jul 1999 14:25:25 GMT References: 7ncfol$7ol$1@nnrp1.deja.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990724102525.26088.00001070@ng-fp1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:51781 it's one thing when the whole group is engaged in one conversation.

In this case, I agree with you. You have to introduce yourself to everyone in the group. Anytime you break a conversation ... your going to have to befriend ALL the girls that were in the conversation you just disturbed.

right From my experience though ... it seems like most of the time the group gets segmented ... For example, you have a group of 5 girls standing around in a club ... maybe 2 of the girls are having one conversation and another 2 girls in the group are having a different conversation and one of the girls is standing around looking bored ... When I'm moving around a club ... I'll naturally go right for the bored girl in the group just because she's going to be the easiest to approach ...

ok. that's TOTALLY different. a "group" that has split into smaller groups.

in this case you are absolutely right and I would do the same thing. approach the bored one or two so they eventually bring you into the group as a welcomed member.

Girls that aren't engaged in conversations are the easiest to approach. plus she's my ticket in. **I know in my original post I said I go for the closest one in the group ... but I meant the closest bored one(s)** When I do an approach such as this ...

RARELY will the other girls try to pull the girl away. Instead, it seems like it brings out the competitive spirit in the other girls ...

and then THEY will be the ones breaking OUR conversation and not the other way around.

that is true also. since you are entertaining their friends and chicks like to see which one of them is the most attractive, they will come and try to woo you also. plus they just like to gossip anyway so they will come over to see how their girlfriend is doing and if she's going to get any tonight :) I guess a good rule to follow is if you disturb a conversation ... then you better befriend everyone that was in the conversation or they'll become an 'obstacle'. I think that's when you end up having the other girls pulling the girls away.

ok. I agree with your theory as re-stated 100% From dc_guy@my-deja.com Tue Jul 27 00:00:53 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!206.165.3.11.MISMATCH!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gctr .net!news-peer.gip .net!news.gsl .net!gip .net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: dc_guy@my-deja.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Charlie 7/24/99 (Kiss Close and #) Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 06:52:42 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Lines: 36 Message-ID: 7nec7p$c9u$1@nnrp1.deja.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.65.99.206 X-Article-Creation-Date: Sun Jul 25 06:52:42 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x34.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 63.65.99.206 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDdc_guy Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:51905 What's up everyone, I just got back from the Third Edition in Georgetown. It's a perfect bar for PUs. It's a pretty big bar with plenty of college women. Also, the only part of the place that is really loud is the dance floor.

I moved around pretty well tonight. I only did around 8 or 9 approaches, but all them lead to conversations. For awhile, I thought it was going to be a dry night. Right before we left though ... I caught a glance from a girl walking by ... so I flagged her down and introduced myself to her and her friend. Luckily ... my friend is a naturally good-looking guy ((he's still an AFC ... but I'm teaching him ... He had a girl come up to him tonight and get right in his face and say ... "When are you going to take me out and buy me dinner?" He said "Whenever you want" I gave him shit about that one ... )) so he didn't have any problem entertaining the girl's friend.

Man ... I was seriously proud of myself. I had my girl laughing and grabbing me in around 4 minutes. I ended up with a kiss close and a number. She's an intern for the summer *SMILE* ... I should have used Mystery's "Now, when I call you ... I don't want you to be like "what's up" or "hey" ... I want you to be really ENERGETIC.. and say "WHAT IS UP CHARLIE.. I'M SO HAPPY THAT YOU CALLED". I used that trick this girl I met Thursday and it worked like a charm ... we're going out for ice cream tomorrow.

Later Charlie Sent via Deja.com https://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Tue Jul 27 00:01:31 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!news-peer.gip .net!news.gsl .net!gip .net!newsfeed.cwix.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: Charlie 7/24/99 (Kiss Close and #) Lines: 15 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 25 Jul 1999 13:34:46 GMT References: 7nec7p$c9u$1@nnrp1.deja.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990725093446.16965.00001159@ng-fo1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:51923 ((he's still an AFC ... but I'm teaching him ... He had a girl come up to him tonight and get right in his face and say ... "When are you going to take me out and buy me dinner?" He said "Whenever you want" I gave him shit about that one ... )) he should have said: "why should I take YOU out to dinner?" with a really sly grin on his face.

the idea is to make her understand that you are WILLING to take her to dinner as a REWARD for something, but you are leaving it up to her what she is going to do to deserve dinner. if she doesn't come up with anything sexy, decline it saying "nope, not enough" or something like that. if she says because she looks good or something like that, say "yeah, but so does she and so does she"

for as many fine chicks as you can spot. then ask her again how she's going to seperate herself from the crowd. hold out for the sex! :) From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Tue Jul 27 00:04:10 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: hat To Do When She Calls Her Boyfriend "My Friend"?

Lines: 32 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 25 Jul 1999 13:51:42 GMT References: 7neccn$a94$1@triton.dnai.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990725095142.16965.00001160@ng-fo1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:51926 Anyway, I started talking with her, and it turned out she _was_ rather smart, and damn interesting ... quite a lot of depth to her. We talked for awhile, and had a great time, had some stuff in common. She also mentioned that she was "waiting for a friend." I was wondering if said friend was a boyfriend or not, but didn't bring it up for awhile, just to make it seem not quite as important. A bit later, I said "I was wondering, this 'friend' you're waiting for your boyfriend?" to which she said yes, he was. Turned out they'd been going out for 7 months. Anyway, I made a joke of it "Ah, ought I to disappear so he doesn't turn me into a bloody pulp for talking to his girlfriend?"

ok. FIRST OF ALL ... this NG is ALL ABOUT _LANGUAGE_ do not use your own language to fuck yourself up. all you are doing with this "witty" comment is placing the image in her mind of her BF standing VICTORIOUS over you as you lie bloody on the floor. HOW ROMANTIC IS THAT? bitches want a prince charming, not some sucker. really dude. be careful with your choice of words. how about saying "I ought to disappear before he thinks I'm trying to whick you away to bermuda with me for drinks on the beach" THAT sets up a FAVORABLE image in her head of you and helps you get to the desired goal ... fucking her.

now. she said it was her "friend" because friend gives you no information about her life and A) it's none of your business WHO she is waiting for B) it's none of your business what her relationship is to who she is waiting for C) she felt comfortable relating to you so she didn't need to HIDE behind a BF _if_ she wanted to reject you.

D) it's possible that she was giving you a CHANCE to NOT KNOW she had a boyfriend and try to get her for yourself :) From nathan@metabork.fr.eu.org Tue Jul 27 00:04:47 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!isdnet!isdnet-serv!not-for-mail From: Nathan SZILARD nathan@metabork.fr.eu.org Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: hat To Do When She Calls Her Boyfriend "My Friend"?

Date: Sun, 25 Jul 1999 19:35:34 +0200 Lines: 52 Message-ID: 379B4AE6.B4D7A047@metabork.fr.eu.org References: 7neccn$a94$1@triton.dnai.com 19990725095142.16965.00001160@ng-fo1.aol.com NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp105-paris2.isdnet.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news3.isdnet.net 932924145 28969 194.149.182.105 (25 Jul 1999 17:35:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@isdnet.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Jul 1999 17:35:45 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.06 [fr]C-CCK-MCD (Win95; I) Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:51956 Really good advice, MrSex! That's exactly how I see it, and your example is GREAT.

1 - DON'T put yourself in a bad image/context 2 - put her in a great picture frame with you Some good PUA I've met (I've reported about them) do just that - they humorously talk about things like 'when will you marry me', etcd ...

A divorced chick I laid last year ... I exactly talked to her htis way. I discounted it bc she was eactly going out to get laid though. But still. I talked about the exciting things we were to do together. Have to think about it. Have to do it.

Note that it's somewhat opposite to Mystery's strategy if I understand it.

MrSex4uNYC a écrit: Anyway, I started talking with her, and it turned out she _was_ rather smart, and damn interesting ... quite a lot of depth to her. We talked for awhile, and had a great time, had some stuff in common. She also mentioned that she was "waiting for a friend." I was wondering if said friend was a boyfriend or not, but didn't bring it up for awhile, just to make it seem not quite as important. A bit later, I said "I was wondering, this 'friend' you're waiting for your boyfriend?" to which she said yes, he was. Turned out they'd been going out for 7 months. Anyway, I made a joke of it "Ah, ought I to disappear so he doesn't turn me into a bloody pulp for talking to his girlfriend?"

D) it's possible that she was giving you a CHANCE to NOT KNOW she had a boyfriend and try to get her for yourself :) From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Tue Jul 27 00:05:22 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!207.138.35.59.MISMATCH!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gctr .net!howland.erols .net!portc02.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: hat To Do When She Calls Her Boyfriend "My Friend"?

Lines: 22 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 25 Jul 1999 18:51:25 GMT References: 379B4AE6.B4D7A047@metabork.fr.eu.org Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990725145125.13149.00001419@ng-bj1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:51967 Really good advice, MrSex! That's exactly how I see it, and your example is GREAT.

thanx 1 - DON'T put yourself in a bad image/context 2 - put her in a great picture frame with you Some good PUA I've met (I've reported about them) do just that - they humorously talk about things like 'when will you marry me', etcd ...

this is essential. once you elicit her values ... IF what she wants is to be married. talk about being married to her. she will get the images in her head of being married to you and eventually FORGET that those images are there because YOU put them there. she will see them as a product of her own mind and feel like she wants to marry you. not that you are going to marry her, but it is essential for her to believe you two can potentially live out her dream in order for her to fuck you now. she is not going to fuck someone for nothing ...

only if it is the start of a long and beautiful relationship ... that you set up in her mind for her.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Tue Jul 27 00:15:18 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!dca1-hub1.news.digex .net!intermedia!howland.erols .net!portc02.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: Question to Mrsex4unyc !

Lines: 62 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 26 Jul 1999 15:02:11 GMT References: 379BE5E9.F0428ADE@lisa.hu.berlin.de Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990726110211.13139.00002505@ng-bh1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:52081 I enjoy your posts very much and I want to ask you a few questions that will be very easy for you to answer.

thanks Would you give specific examples on how to accomplish the following tasks you mentioned in your posts: a) "You must know who you MUST BE to fuck her"

How exactly do you achieve that?

it's very basic really. instead of talking about bullshit with a chick or your porsche or your yacht or your country club membership ... ask her about herself.

what she wants what she likes what she thinks she needs what she deserves what she had in the past what she wants to repeat what she wants to avoid what scares her what makes her happy what makes her feel sexy ...

do this BEFORE telling her about yourself. then selectively edit or FABRICATE your existance to always it on things that she told you HERSELF are positive things and AVOID what she told you HERSELF are negative things.

Let's say she said she likes athletic guys that are smart. let's say you have your PHD, but you NEVER go to the gym and are really a wimp. Talk to her about research or something that demonstrates you are intelligent (POSITIVE) selectively NEGLECT to tell her that you never work out. instead, tell her you are a member of such-and-such health club. this way she ASSUMES you work out.

don't admit that you don't.

some chicks like aggressive men and some like passive men that they can cuddle with and EVENTUALLY have sex with. find out FIRST which one she wants and THEN project that image to her. what happens is that she notices that you are displaying many traits that she looks for in a sex partner and none of the negative traits that she uses to weed guys out. she keeps thinking about this and reinforces it in her own mind and decides that you are right for her to fuck.

in this situation, how you REALLY FEEL is irrelevant. you are tailoring your personality to her tastes in order to BE THAT MAN that she wants to fuck and she will see it in you and your job will be much easier than if you explained your true nature to her and took the "pot luck" chance that she likes ANY of your real traits.

b) "You must demonstrate to her YOU are the man she wants to fuck her tonight"

same as above. exhibit the things she finds positive about men and HIDE the things that are trua about yourself that she despises in men. there are some things that chicks cannot stand. sometimes just telling them that you'll fuck any chick that you really like is too much for them ... that is if they believe in a supernatural connection that makes people want to fuck. then again, telling a chick that only wants to fuck that you want a relationship will get her to back off of you because she doesn't want to have to dump you later.

find out WHO she wants then BE THAT MAN and she'll come to you.

c) "You MUST convey personality and value" ?

the point of that is you need to seperate yourself from other guys talking about bullshit. chicks hear the same thing all the time. if you can demonstrate that you are interesting and unique, she will WANT to be in touch with you and WANT you to call her. if you don't convey value to her (making her laugh, making her feel sexy, etc.) there is no reason to believe that she will give you her number when you leave.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Tue Jul 27 00:21:41 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!howland.erols .net!newsfeed.cwix.com!204.59.152.222!news-peer.gip .net!news.gsl .net!gip .net!portc01.blue.aol.com!spamz.news.aol.com!

Subject: Re: newbie post Lines: 33 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 26 Jul 1999 16:27:51 GMT References: 7nhv51$mcs$1@nclient11-gui.server.virgin.net Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990726122751.14004.00001844@ng-fj1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:52095 The lady in question nearly convinced me when she was giving me all of the 'never have an affair at the office' lines and thats why I backed off then, perhaps I should have persisted.

nope. persistance would NOT have worked. she picked ANY excuse she could to reject you. if you persist, you will STILL be the guy she wants to reject.

what you have to do is make her believe you are someone else. find out what she wants in a man and be that man. find out what she likes in the guy that's fucking her that she didn't find in you. make her believe that you have the traits she is looking for in a sex partner and she'll get in line.

never try to change her mind. change her mental state.

Seeing the two of them together every day and listening to his comments about their sex life is a major problem, if we didn't work together I could probably forget about her in time - 'out of sight, out of mind', I need to deal with this problem somehow - if I think to myself what do I really want then it always comes back to one thing - her!

tell the guy talking all the shit that you don't want to hear it ... EVER! let him know you are not kidding. it's the images of him fucking her doggie-style after you put in so much time with her and got NOTHING that is bothering you.

remove the daily sick-sucking stories and you'll feel much better about yourself and the situation.

So how do I deal with this guys, distance myself and try to forget her (make myself look like a jerk, lose a friend and create an atmosphere in the office) or go get her (possibly make myself look like an even bigger jerk and make an enemy out of the other guy)?

stay close to her as a friend. talk to her about her sex life. find out what she wants. give it to her. take that bitch!

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Tue Jul 27 00:23:10 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal11.airnews .net!newsfeed.sgi .net!nntp.abs .net!howland.erols .net!newsfeed.cwix.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: no number Lines: 24 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 25 Jul 1999 19:11:12 GMT References: 378CE905.388DB8C1@yourbidding.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990725151112.13149.00001434@ng-bj1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:51972 Now, my main goal was the approach, so far so good. But what could I have done to acquire the phone number? (even if i had more time) Yeah I know, I shouldn't have asked her name, and I shouldn't have asked her number (supplication), but she was leaving. It went pretty well to the point where she asked my name and her brother interrupted. The music is too loud to use patterns, sometimes you have to say things 2 or 3 times before the other one understands you ...

your approach was fine. you didn't give her ANY REASON to want to talk to you ever again in this life. that's what you have to do in your 10 minutes of fame. you have to let her know that you are unique and the only way she is going to be able to enjoy your company is to give you her number and please you so you feel like rewarding her.

all those styles you mentioned are no good for you YET. memorize them and get ready to use them, but those are for when guys are AHEAD of the game. you are behind the game right now. concentrate on approaching and not being scared and talking to the girl and showing her how you are different.

chicks love a good sense of humor. if you can make her laugh, you leap ahead of MANY MANY CHUMPS who are so busy concentrating on being serious and fucking her that they don't make her have fun.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Tue Jul 27 00:25:52 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!204.59.152.222!news-peer.gip .net!news.gsl .net!gip .net!portc01.blue.aol.com!spamz.news.aol.com!

Subject: Re: Cute Lines: 38 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 26 Jul 1999 14:41:38 GMT References: 379f582a.2758418@news.empireone.net Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990726104138.13139.00002494@ng-bh1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:52075 Actually, my friends and I have referred to guys as "cute" in very complimentary ways.

that's what I was saying Usually if we bother to say he's cute we find him sexually attractive on some level, even if not for us, for another woman we know ... "you should meet so and so ... he's pretty cute"

(We are always scoping for our friends.) that's interesting. we had a thread on how women like to set their friends up and how they like to imagine or see their girlfriends in sexual or dating situations. it had something to do with Maniac's "Mr Smooth" style.

that is also useful. we can use this for a pivot approach. instead of approaching the chick for the date or the fuck or whatever, we could potentially approach her as a guy that is LOOKING but not necessarily for HER.

in which case she would go into automatic set-him-up mode and become an ACTIVE scout, recommending you to chicks and getting you laid by inviting you out with girls that they think would like you.

Sometimes if he's really attractive we call him babe. Cute means appealling, maybe in an unusual way, but not necessarrilly. Cute is usually for men 30 and under ... after that they become good looking or attractive, but it basically menas the same thing. I have never called a man sexy, since in my kind, sexy applies to females ... you know, cleavage, glamour, all that stuff ... just doesn't seem like a very masculine word to me, so I never use it.

Kate hmm ... men are not sexy but women are. so are you saying that females are the sexual creatures and men are just along for the ride? I don't really get where you make the distinction OR what it really means. are you saying women are responsible for creating sexual situations?

dunno From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Tue Jul 27 00:35:40 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!howland.erols .net!portc02.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: Cute Lines: 31 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 26 Jul 1999 16:21:50 GMT References: 379d8535.14291558@news.empireone.net Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990726122150.14004.00001841@ng-fj1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:52094 On 26 Jul 1999 15:04:53 GMT, mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC) wrote: Fuck That!

give her a nice long "Use It or Lose It" speech. If she's not fucking, hand over some friends that want to fuck.

It's as simple as that, or FUCK THAT BITCH and don't respond to her at all.

It's her RESPONSIBILITY to sex you OR find another chick that will or she is USELESS to you!

Thats what I like about you, dude. You're such a sensitive guy.

Kate er.. um ... what I meant was ...

That's not fair to you Nathan :( let her know how you long for her, but since you can understand her reasons for not returning your heartfelt paassion, the least she could do as a TRUE FRIEND is to PLEASE help you to fill the void with a woman that loves you for YOU and not your money or wit or smashing good looks. someone that will be there for you on those lonely nights when all you have now is lying in front of your fireplace alone, remembering the good times you shared together before your dreams were dashed to pieces :( help me Rhonda ... help help me Rhonda HAHAHAHAHAHA :) From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Wed Jul 28 00:32:45 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!howland.erols .net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: How can I handle "are you seeing someone else?" ??

Lines: 22 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 27 Jul 1999 23:20:56 GMT References: 7nlcv2$rim$1@nnrp1.deja.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990727192056.10024.00002447@ng-fk1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:52306 Most women would rather share a successful man than go out with a faithful loser.

very important idea hetero. I find that there are a lot of women dating faithful losers. even when I tell them I am dating other women, they still want to hang with me for the "fun and games" :) matter of fact, recently I have been telling them about what I do with the other chicks kind of like a quotes excercise and it gets them hot faster than anything else.

you would think since most chicks say they want honesty and fidelity that they would be willing to give the same thing to their men. it's not true. it's like Kate said, emotions follow biology. I have been easing back on the direct sex-shit and flirting and teasing chicks and light-petting until they get so wet that they start DEMANDING the action ... wherever we are! :) it's that simple. their man makes them feel one way every day. I make them feel great whenever they are with me. I work on them enough and eventually they want sexual release RIGHT HERE ... RIGHT NOW :) I have also found that chicks respect my honestly screwing several chicks instead of duping them into fucking and then they find out later on :) I leave them the choice to get with the program or not and if they do, they knew who I was when they started this :) From etherman23@hotmail.com Wed Jul 28 03:16:49 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!netnews.com!chnws02.mediaone .net!24.128.1.101!chnws05.ne.mediaone .net!24.128.44.7!wbnws01.ne.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail From: "etherman" etherman23@hotmail.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast References: 19990715.082154.-220963.58.Women_Purrrr_For_ME@juno.com N7uj3.21706$Wr1.484688@wbnws01.ne.mediaone.net 7njh3q$22gk@news2.newsguy.com

Subject: Re: If she says she has a boyfriend ...

Lines: 27 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Message-ID: susn3.357$Y64.16835@wbnws01.ne.mediaone.net Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 20:51:59 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.128.165.207 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: wbnws01.ne.mediaone.net 933123096 24.128.165.207 (Tue, 27 Jul 1999 20:51:36 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 20:51:36 EDT Organization: Road Runner Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:52314 Metal Head orion@key-net.net wrote in message news:7njh3q$22gk@news2.newsguy.com ...

If she injects the boyfriend into the conversation unsolicited, a neg may be in order, Never under-estimate the power of a neg hit :) how about a good example for this situation?

Off the top of my head, "You don't seem the type to have a steady bf." If she gets defensive you can launch into the virtues of being a free spirit. You can blab on about powerful feelings that go with control over your destiny, and that if you see something you like (point to yourself) than you can just reach out an grab it. With a little luck she'll feel guilty about misinterpreting what you said and she'll want to make up for that.

- Etherman etherman23@hotmail.com From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Wed Jul 28 03:18:33 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!howland.erols .net!portc02.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: Group Openers?

Lines: 14 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 27 Jul 1999 18:46:00 GMT References: 7nj8i8$e2l$1@nnrp1.deja.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990727144600.16973.00002283@ng-fo1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:52275 Every thing I say, she imediatly says something just rude back to me (whether I target her or ignore her, she is hard core cock blocking).

Finally I say, do you know what "I like about you?" she says "no." I say "me neither" and go back to my table.

BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA that shit is SO FUCKING FUNNY :) I'm going to use that as my DEFAULT opener HAHAHA SUPER-NEG from the beginning HAHAHAHAHA I LOVE IT!

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Wed Jul 28 03:34:20 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal11.airnews .net!uunet!dfw.uu .net!ffx.uu .net!newsfeed.fast .net!howland.erols .net!portc02.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: Cute Lines: 134 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 27 Jul 1999 17:12:23 GMT References: 379dc2fc.30108484@news.empireone.net Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990727131223.16973.00002242@ng-fo1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:52249 how do you guys feel about being treated as objects?

Women genrally are treated as sexual playthings, and men as wallets, and I recognize the reverse exploitation here. So the question is: what would you NOT want to hear women say about you?

A) I don't give a fuck what her reasons are for sexing me as long as she sexes me. The only reason I give a fuck why she is NOT sexing me is so I can change her state/mind and get her to lay the fuck down :) B) I understand your point, but I don't give a fuck WHAT women have to say in sexual situations. this is an intellectual discussion, so I care what YOU have to say ... but in a normal situation = sex ... I don't care what you call me or say about me.

From where I stand, chicks are interchangeable. Only the ones that have some kind of repeatable value like they have a really good sense of humor or fuck really well or whatever get ANY recognition in my book.

How would you feel if I said the same thing about guys, except in regard to thier financial value? Would you be offended or just think it was human nature?

guys ARE interchangeable due to financial value ... that's the problem with guys tring to take chicks out to impress them. I can buy you lobster and so can Nathan ... SO WHAT? which one of us is sexier? which one of us do you want to fuck? NEITHER because ANY MAN can buy you lobster. that's why guys that talk bout the country club just get golddiggers and not real chicks because guys are interchangeable until they demonstrate personality differences and make themselves known as superiors to the average joe.

as far as how I would feel ... If you called me interchangeable and then fucked me, I would feel good. If you called me interchangeable then didn't give up any sex, I would feel bad ... see what I mean ... NO DIFFERENCE!

For instance, Kate ... you were just some chick until you started posting great stuff like this question. suddenly you had VALUE. suddenly you were worth something because you bring new ideas into my life that make me reconsider positions and adopt stronger stances and most of all understand MORE about women (notice I didn't say UNDERSTAND WOMEN) Mrsex, as an advocate for my gender, I have met very few WORTHLESS women. I find the vast majority of women I know to be intelligent, friendly, and funny, and often they are talented as well.

whatever whatever ...

I have read ahead to Nathan's replies to this thread and he is right. you are arguing a DIFFERENT worth. let me explain this to you. I already have money so I don't need a chick for her money. I already have friends, so I don't need a chick to talk to. I do not need CONSTANT companionship, so I don't need a chick to clean up after me and be there every night.

what I CAN'T do for myself is give myself that feeling I get in the presence of an AWESOMELY SEXY WOMAN! THAT'S what I need from women. therefore ... forget about her contributions to politics and science and all that bullshit. I want some T&A and I want a horny chick that likes fucking and I'm living LARGE!

having said that, you now know the kind of worth I am talking about. women have SEXUAL WORTH and that's it. their societal worth is irrelevant to me and to this NG. the point here is fucking girls that you are attracted to. what I was saying about YOU is that you had NO WORTH to me because you are A) a figment of my imagination because you only exist on the internet and B) don't live in NYC and C) are HAPPILY married so I wasn't getting any sex off of you anwyays :) when you started posting intelligent material to this NG, you CREATED WORTH because I VALUE your opinions and have indeed changed some of my styles and some of my BASIC IDEAS because of YOU and I appreciate that :) now ... if you were available, ugly, no body, lived in NYC, and intelligent ...

you would get NO physical attention from me, but I would chat with you all day on AOL :) you would have NO SEXUAL WORTH AT ALL!

What the fuck could they have done to deserve adult men leering at them, callling them names, trying to pick them up before they have a sense of what is really happenning? I started getting this from guys when I was 12, and I totally did not know how to deal with it. It did a real # on me.

and you had the nerve to call me a psychiatrist when I told you you need to resolve your issues HAHAHA :) I am very serious. I want you to be happy and healthy ... that's why I respond to these off-topic posts about women's rights to not be accosted. WRONG NG baby! but you contribute to my life so I try to contribute to yours in return.

Why do we have to prove that we are not worthless objects to be used for entertainment and discarded?

you can't prove that because it's true except for the discarded part. as far as I am concerned (and not Tim of course) you are as useful to me as your SEXUAL SKILLS, LOOKS AND BODY! you can prove intelligence and social value and you can cook and all that other stuff, but if I don't feel horny around you, you get no play.

Until chicks demonstrate some kind of value, they're just T&A and pretty faces ... interchangeable and essentially valueLESS if there is another one that is willing to get with the program that has the same tits you do.

Ummm,, ... would you feel this way about your sister or daughter? How do you feel about guys who would have treated your mother and grandmother this way? This sentiment just makes me sick.

if I had a daughter I would make her aware of guys like me. I would let her know that guys are going to manipulate her and she needs to look out for certain things. I would not make her paranoid, but there is NO WAY I would let her out into the world without knowledge. it's my duty as a parent. rent the movie "Kids" to see what happens if you don't :( besides ... anyone that allows themselves to be used gets what they deserve.

fortunately members of my family are strong (mentally) for the most part. a couple get into questionable relationships, but not abusive, because the abuser would immediately find himself the ABUSEE OR WORSE!

If you ask me, the women who go for $ make it tougher for the nice guys to trust the rest of us.

that's true and I agree, but that is a trust issue. how much can you TRUST a chick that you just met at a bar and take home to fuck? not that that makes her untrustworthy to fuck fast ... I just mean that TRUST is not a sexy factor and is TOTALLY OVERRULED by lust. trust is good for acoiding STDs, but in general, guys will fuck untrustworthy 8s before trustworthy UGs :) Every user fucking slid squalling, helpless, and wretched out of a woman's body.

Talk about women's work.

Ugh.

Kate not relevant :) From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Wed Jul 28 03:46:46 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!europa.netcrusader .net!205.252.116.205!howland.erols .net!portc02.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: I hate the phone!

Lines: 49 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 27 Jul 1999 17:58:59 GMT References: 933048190.21227@www.remarq.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990727135859.16973.00002261@ng-fo1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:52267 on-point Craig Remember, chit chatting about clubs and work school is something she can do with anyone, but someone who can lead her into a state of arousel or at least romantic interest is hard to come by.

definitely. that is so important. make her FEEL something that she can't feel with anyone else. put yourself above the crowd.

You have to set yourself apart from the other guys by minimizing the small talk and asking questions which can lead her into a romantic state.

yep. remain fixed on the desired outcome and always lead her there.

Also, you sounded like you cared just a little too much about whether or not you see this girl again. She could obviously tell that you were really interested, and that might have been one of the things that scared her off.

good point. he was demonstrating too much "I want to be with you" and too little "You want to be with me". keep letting her know the reasons SHE wants to be with YOU and she will usher herself over to see you when her brain THINKS she came up with it herself.

One of my rules is I will never try to convince a girl to hang out with me.

yeah, me too. having to convince her means that she is not interested in it for herself. if she isn't interested, she is doing YOU a favor instead of you doing HER a favor by allowing her to share some of your time and pushing her into states of arousal. also, convincing her says "OH PLEASE ... if you don't hang out with me I have NOTHING else to do ... pleeeeease go out with me!" I invite the chick. she accepts or declines. if she declines she is through.

if she calls me and suggests a hangout, I know that SHE wants it and I decide if I want to do her the favor of spending time with her. I am the prize, not her :) Another thing, if you kissed closed the first time you met then way are you meeting her for ice cream?

TOTALLY FUCKING ON POINT!

that's what I was saying about lateral and backwards moves. this isn't HAPPY DAYS! you aren't RICHIE CUNNINGHAM! you already kissed her so THE CAT IS OUT OF THE BAG ... THE JIG IS UP! she knows you want sex ... time to get it from her! stop trying to hide now, you're in the middle of the western street and she drew her guns ... SHOOT MAN SHOOT!

From jakethomson@pop.dnvr.uswest.net Wed Jul 28 03:47:38 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!206.165.3.11.MISMATCH!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gctr .net!nuq-peer.news.verio .net!news-out.uswest .net!news.uswest .net!not-for-mail Message-ID: 379D5E70.82F22191@pop.dnvr.uswest.net From: Jake Thomson jakethomson@pop.dnvr.uswest.net Reply-To: jakethomson@uswest.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: I hate the phone!

References: 7niv9r$8fk$1@nnrp1.deja.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 69 Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 01:23:28 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.225.106.163 X-Trace: news.uswest.net 933060175 207.225.106.163 (Tue, 27 Jul 1999 02:22:55 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 02:22:55 CDT Organization: U S WEST Interprise Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:52174 Congrats on the kiss close. And you had a learning experience.

dc_guy@my-deja.com wrote: Alright, I just got off the phone with the girl I met Saturday (I kissed closed with her) Okay ... Here's how it went basically I call her up and say "Hello, this is Charlie from the Third Edition"

She remembered me and I talk about how much fun we had and she agrees.

I talked a little more about the night we met and try to get her to remember how fun it was. She agrees again. (It seemed to be going really well up to this point) Then I say "Let's meet up Tomorrow at 6:30 and get some ice cream" then I she says "Ummmm HUmmmm I don't know?" so I say "What do you mean you don't know. You either want to meet up with me or you don't. It's as simple as that." then she talks about how she doesn't really know me well enough and how I could be a psycho.

Lesson here, you're arguing with her. Bad idea. Next time you get into a situation like this, an "Ummm, I dunno." BACK OFF!!!

Pace her a bit, and say something like: "I can understand where you're coming from. You're right, you don't know me very well, and that's ok. I don't know you very well either. You're not an axe-murderer, or anything, are you?

It's funny though because I was talking with my friend Colleen the other day, and she was telling me that there are some people you just know are good to get to know. And then there are others . . . who are even better.

And there are somethings you know you know, and there are other things that you know but you don't know you know them.

What's really fascinating is when what you know but you don't know you know becomes something you know you know. It just makes you think things differently, you know?

And as you think about what I said, how surprised would you be to find yourself actually looking forward to spending just a little time with me? I mean maybe to the point you can just imagine us together over coffee, laughing and having the best time, and you starting to feel really comfortable with it? As you think about it like that, doesn't it seem natural for us to get together, say Monday or Tuesday?

Then I say "Trust me ... I'm not a psycho ... "

How the fuck does she know that? Again, you're arguing with her. Next time, and I'm sure you'll have plenty of next times. Acknowledge her concern, validate it, and move on to something else, such as her experiencing the emotions you want her to experience with you. Then make your pitch again.

the rest of dc_guy's learning experience snipped - Two guys are walking down the street.

The first guy walks into a bar, the second one ducks.

Visit my web page: https://www.users.uswest.net/~jakethomson jakethomson@uswest.net From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Wed Jul 28 03:52:49 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!howland.erols .net!portc02.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: I hate the phone!

Lines: 101 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 27 Jul 1999 18:19:29 GMT References: 37a2a7bb.3771205@news.empireone.net Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990727141929.16973.00002269@ng-fo1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:52272 Then I say "Let's meet up Tomorrow at 6:30 and get some ice cream"

Instead of commanding her, ask her.

nope. he was absolutely right. command her to meet with you. if she declines, it is a showing of disrespect AND she is not taking advantage of an opportunity to be with you. TWO reasons (when you only need one) to cut her off and press her for what you want IF she crawls back to you in the future.

Maybe (to make her feel more comfortable) "Some friends and I are heading over to (whichever ice cream place) tomorrow. Want to come ?" Give her the opportunity to gracefully decline.

OH NO OH GOD NO! "some friends and I"? no no no bad technique. keep it simple ... you and me this time this place. this is the gift of my time I am willing to give to you. take it or leave it. if you leave it, you will NOT get another offer, unless you make a definite plan with me right now to see me.

that last thing you want is a graceful decline or her feeling comfortable with you by saying you aer going on a group outing.

these aren't ethics questions Kate ... these are tactics ... read up if you like.

then I she says "Ummmm HUmmmm I don't know?" so I say "What do you mean you don't know. You either want to meet up with me or you don't. It's as simple as that."

Again, much too dominant.

dominant is good, assuming he elicited her values and he knows she likes to be commanded. I disagree with his confrontational stance though. me as dominant as you can support with your true personality, but don't confront chicks. keep them feeling good about you and themselves and feeling positive in general.

you are arguing over bullshit semantics ... what happens when dishes are dirty?

you will yell at her or abuse her. this is the extrapolation from your bullshit confrontations. cjoose your battles wisely.

then she talks about how she doesn't really know me well enough and how I could be a psycho. Then I say "Trust me ... I'm not a psycho ... "

oh yeah she's gonna take your word for it? HAHAHAHA Then she says well "Are you going back to such and such club next weekend?" I say "No, probably not"

A better response might have been maybe or yes.

Absolutely wrong! the right answer was "NO. I have plans to go out next weekend." If he tells her he will be at the same club, she IMMEDIATELY says there is no reason for them to see each other alone since she will definitely see him next weekend. that pushes his date back DAYS. it places him in a CROWD of OBSTACLES. too much noise and distraction. he is now locked into going to that club that night SPECIFICALLY to meet with that chick ...

SUPPLICATION CITY! AND there's no guarantee that she will show up there at all!

Still, you could have said ... "We'll be hearing so and so play at whatever the club is ... we'll be there after 10. " This puts her in the driver's seat and allows her to feel secure with no real investment from you. If she chooses to go see you, all the better.

in a different situation, that is an excellent plan. "I am doing this ... if you want, you can join me" however he is past that stage. he already kisseed her, so the game is on. he needs an aggressive stance so he doesn't loes the ground he's gained.

Then she says ... "Well, I just don't know you well enough yet" Then I say "Well, why don't you get to know me right now?"

she agrees.. and we start to chat ... about school/jobs and stuff like that ... She keeps asking me a lot of questions. Things are going alright at this point ...

you THOUGHT things were going well ... look back over the conversation. ask yourself what you gained from telling her what you told her. chicks don't process facts, the process feelings. what did you make her FEEL about you?

what did you do to change her mind about seeing you? what did you tell her that made her HORNY for you? what did you tell her that made her know that you are NOT a psycho? what did you tell her that made her know you can fuck the shit out of a girl and leave her begging for more? I guarantee you didn't convey the right personality because you were talking about bullshit instead of eliciting her values and regurgitating them back to her.

then all of a sudden she says "Well, I have to go get something to eat with my roommate." I say "It's 7:00 isn't that a little late for dinner?"

Again, why do you believe you have the right to question this? This is just pushy and obnoxious.

Kate yes, you are right there. that was a DUMB statement. you criticized a BULLSHIT point and made her feel NEGATIVE about you for nothing. save all the tactics and negs and the advanced stuff until you get the BASICS down. keep her feeling good and positive about you and about herself and about the two of you being together.

From nwmt@usa.net Wed Jul 28 03:56:55 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.corridex.com!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei .net!pln-w!spln!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news1 From: "Verbal Kint" nwmt@usa.net Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: RE: Outing report: Mixed mating strategy???

Date: Mon, 26 Jul 1999 23:48:36 -0500 Organization: https://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 35 Message-ID: 7njdvb$1vak@news1.newsguy.com References: 19990726.235833.-329745.11.Ladies_Purr_For_ME@juno.com NNTP-Posting-Host: p-881.newsdawg.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:52168 -To get back on topic, is there any reason you'd risk a confrontation with the guy in this situation? I'd think it would be pretty dangerous to aproach.

well, I never found it wrong to go up to the guy and say something like "congratulations, you have a truly beautiful GF"

here's the deal ... HE'S ON THE SPOT.. if he has any brains, he should agree and thank you ... for one simple reason.. if she is his woman after all, then he wont screw up in front of her.. he can't show insecurity in front of her ... he has to agree ... and at this point either you are 100% and you lose nothing ... or maybe shes not her GF for some odd reason and she might actually jump in front of him to intodruce herself (happened to me once!) ... some women just love men with determination..

gotta tell ya ...

now ... some boys like to show off and say "thanks, now FUCK OFF"..

hey.. that's no skin off my teeth.. I just back off, put up my hands ala "dont shoot" (BTW, this is one awesome defensive stance) , and say "no prob" ... incline my head and wink at the same time (kinda like Keanu Reeves in "Devil's Advocate" ... "CANT WIN THEM ALL!!" ..had to say it!) ...

in closing.. you cant lose with this approach.. you'll look good in her eyes..

but then again ... ray sees this as dangerous.. then again.. that's his excuse.. pussy!

vk From nathan@metabork.fr.eu.org Wed Jul 28 03:58:33 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!newsfeed.direct.ca!newspeer.monmouth.com!easynet-fr!buggy.easynet.fr!nathan From: nathan@metabork.fr.eu.org (Nathan SZILARD) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: FORGET EYE CONTACT Date: 27 Jul 1999 08:33:11 GMT Organization: [Posted via] Easynet France Lines: 7 Message-ID: slrn7pqrk7.28u.nathan@linuxserver.icommerce-france.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.114.83.33 X-Trace: buggy.easynet.fr 933064391 67206 195.114.83.33 (27 Jul 1999 08:33:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@easynet.fr NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Jul 1999 08:33:11 GMT User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.4 (UNIX) Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:52183 I see all those posts which mention eye contact; FORGET about it.

The "3s rule" RULEZ!!! No need to probe, look, snoop, sneak. Makes you look creepy.

The Grand Master I told about right here does'nt even look at them when they talk.

From whiteknight@hushmail.com Wed Jul 28 04:01:49 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!206.165.3.11.MISMATCH!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gctr .net!howland.erols .net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: whiteknight@hushmail.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: ASF: First success Date: Tue, 27 Jul 1999 08:47:56 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Lines: 152 Message-ID: 7njrnq$qp2$1@nnrp1.deja.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.216.95.197 X-Article-Creation-Date: Tue Jul 27 08:47:56 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.5 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x24.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 203.216.95.197 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDwhiteknight69 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:52188 For all those of you gentlemen who don't read texts longer than five lines, there is a description of how I had sex with a gorgeous stripper at the end of this text. But do yourself a favour and read this text in full.

After many years of maintaining almost only "serious" relationships I felt it is now time for some of the less obliging type of fun.

I suppose I have been a "nice guy" most of my life. Women have stood me up without negative consequences, used my liking of them for advancing their own goals (mostly they needed my skills for solving problems they couldn't solve themselves), cancelled dates at short notice, made me look like a fool in front of others, and generally played with my feelings on numerous occasions. Many here have pointed out that women are light-years ahead when it comes to playing mindgames, manipulating and deceiving. This is true and when I came to realize this - admittedly rather late in life (I am now 30) - things started to change.

While being Mr. Nice Guy, I was not very succesful in approaching women unless they happened to see in me an attractive long-term partner. This would usually happen in a context where they had an opportunity to observe me and get to know me casually (school, workplace, seminars etc.) Taking this opportunity, I would like to thank Mr Jeffries for his comments on the subject of nice guys. He is right. The first thing you've got to do is stop being one. My sudden, unexpected success proves the point. This does not mean that you have to become a jerk. I refuse to ever do so, even if it were the only way to achieve my goals, which it is not. But you have to look at the object of your desire with cold eyes. If you let your emotions get to your head you will not be able to control your actions in order to maximize the required effects.

And these are sometimes not in accordance with being a nice guy. She wants to cancel 1 hour before the date? She will have to learn the unpleasant way to change her ways. She stands you up? NEVER call her back to see where she is/was. She plays games? Drop her like a hot potato and move on. Or confront her.

Next realization, thanks to this newsgroup, was that I needed to broaden my base of options and not to focus on one particular woman at a time. I had three in play when I won my first prize. Broadening your base makes it easier to bear disappointment and generally increases the likelihood of success.

The red thread in the above paragraphs seems to be: you need to do everything for effect. I believe that this thinking alone helped me to my first succes. Before I tell you the actual story of that event, let me also comment on the value of the "Speed Seduction" course by Mr.

Jeffries. This has two main components as far as content goes. NLP (neurolinguistic programming) material and non-NLP comments. The non-NLP stuff was very valuable to me and is partially reflected in my above explanations. I do not know if the NLP material is helpful since I only studied it for a total of 7 hours so far. I did try to apply some.

Finally, here is the story. A gorgeous stripper, I met her at her workplace. Long legs, big, dark eyes, black hair, small firm breasts, a shapely, small behind. On my personal, extremely picky scale of 1-10 she rates 7+ in terms of looks as well as personality. For your orientation: Pamela Anderson would be an 8 on this scale, Renee Tenison and Sung-Hi Lee both a 9. I couldn't come up with a 10 right now.

Let's call her Naomi. Great dancer, ex-aerobics instructor. She sat with me at my table (I got up to greet her), naturally I bought her drinks.

We had an animated conversation about her hobby, photography. Please note: HER hobby, not mine. She later on told me that ALL her customers try to get her phone number and then a date and that she NEVER dates customers. I was different, she said, because I showed a real interest in what she does when she is not stripping. I used some NLP for establishing "that incredible feeling of connection" but do not know if it worked. After half an hour, I asked her for a private dance. She led me to a separete room and proceeded. This is not the newsgroup for going into the details so let it suffice to say that I was aroused. I left soon after but not before getting her cell phone number.

A couple of days later I called her. Voicemail. Left a message saying that if she wanted to know a secret that would change her life she should call me. This was a mere gimmick, nothing behind it. Next day she called me back. This time it was my voicemail.

Now, please pay attention, my dear fellows. I deliberately DID NOT call her back for two days, contrary to all my natural instincts. Then I called.

"Wow, you are one busy guy, aren't you."

"Sorry, Naomi, I was totally swamped with work."

I asked her out for dinner at this fancy place downtown. I must say I was surprised that she agreed to come.

Well, I was there at the appointed time but she wasn't. I decided to play it the Ross Jeffries way. I refused to give in to my natural instinct to call her after five minutes to see where she was. Instead I decided to wait 15 minutes, then leave if she hadn't shown up. At exactly 10 minutes after the appointment, she called me.

"Hi, it's Naomi. Where are you now?"

"At the agreed meeting point."

"Oh really? I was in a cafe nearby but now I'm on my way. Sorry. I'll be there in three minutes."

"I'll see you when you get here."

She showed up five minutes later. Bumped into me, rubbed her breasts against me. The first thing she asked was "Why didn't you call me?"

"I never call. I just go home after 15 minutes."

"You are the first guy like that I meet. I am always late on a first date. They always call."

We had a very pleasant dinner with growing erotic tension. When we had finished our main dishes and had chatted for some more, I said desert is waiting at my place. She said she could come but wouldn't have sex with me. I said that's OK, we'd still have good time.

At my place she sat on the couch, I put on some music, got out some desert wine, sat with her. After a couple of minutes I started kissing her. She responded passionately and soon she was so worked up, I've hardly ever seen a woman like that. She literally lost herself. After 30 minutes of ongoing foreplay, I carried her to the bedroom. Again she said she wouldn't have sex with me. I said I'd respect her limits. We kissed some more. I asked her if she'd ever come by oral stimulation alone. "No." I told her that that is a shame, removed her soaked panties and got to work (she had no objection to this). After less than five minutes she violently pulled me up and almost screamed at me to get my cock into her "RIGHT NOW!" I was happy to oblige.

She stayed the night and we had breakfast together. I haven't called her since then (more then a week now) and she hasn't called me. I am afraid she will call and ask me why I am not calling her. I do not want to get into anything serious with her and also, frankly, don't want to see her again. I'd like to move on to new adventures.

To sum up, merely starting to think more systematically about the subject of seduction, reading some Ross Jeffries and this newsgroup, seems to have already turned my fate around. Do I think Ross Jeffries is worth his money? Yes. If you are really cash-strapped you can probably gather enough information from this newsgroup by using deja.com. But it will be a tiring process. If $200 won't hurt you, do spend them.

Any comments from you as to what I should tell her if she calls?

Sincerely, Whiteknight Sent via Deja.com https://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Thu Jul 29 03:30:17 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!dca1-hub1.news.digex .net!intermedia!feed1.news.rcn .net!rcn!howland.erols .net!portc02.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: If she says she has a boyfriend ...

Never under-estimate the power of a neg hit :) how about a good example for this situation?

Etherman I just did something like this. The chick had a BF, but wasn't satisfied with him. I took her back through a meta-state tour of her ex-boyfriends. the guys that really turned her on I brought her back to frquently. basically, her boyfriend paled in comparison, and she remembered how HORNY she used to feel with guys and she just doesn't get that with him anymore. suddenly, she wants a little kino ... shoulder massages, back rubs, holding her from behind and kissing her neck ... that was all she wrote :) basically, if she claims a BF and that doesn't make you want to bail immediately ... make her remember past boyfriends ... make her remember that she broke up with them ... make her remember that they were better lovers than her current BF ... make her long for guys that she CAN'T POSSIBLY GET HER HANDS ON but she remembers being in their arms and how much she wanted to please them and how much she wanted them to touch and please her. once she realizes that boyfriends are a passing thing, she will NOT want to waste the opportunity to get a blessed release from all the sexual feelings you have just aroused in her ... and YOU'RE IT! :)

Subject: Re: An Awesome Line!

On returning, me and one other guy go to our usual end of the room, the other vanishes elsewhere and BOO, three newbie HB's (9,5, 7.5, 7) at a table with a guy I know & one I know slightly. Say hello to the guys and then (THANKS MYSTERY) 'Ok how does everyone here know everyone else?' What a line! I didn't have to say anything for the next four minutes as the HB's were busy explaining their potted recent histories, why they were there, how they came to be there, and who was with who with a lot of clucking, unsolicited handshaking and name telling. Magic!

yeah, that line is great ... especially when the truth comes out and the guy that THOUGHT he was here on a date finds out he's only HANGING OUT with the girl he wants and she declares herself free for oyur picking :) So, nobody is with nobody ... (the guy I know looked pissed when I found this out from the horse's mouth: I could see his game, he was after the 9.5 - and he's a naughty boy 'cos he's in a long term relationship: I shall observe and not interfere - unless ... ) my policy on that is if I don't sarge with him (ie: he's not my wingman) he's through. if the chick likes me that's all she wrote for him! If I do sarge with him it's a different story though.

I tell all my wingmen up front that it's anything goes with the chicks. I am not going to try to take a chick that they are talking to, but if I am getting the vibe, I will give it ample time for my wing to reel her back in and get her. after that, it's full steam ahead! I will give him room because he's the one that found the chicks, but if he can't attract her and he's tried his whole bit ... step aside my man ... it's my turn :) same thing if I am called in as the wing. I will fulfill my duty as wing as it is explained to me, but if the situation goes dynamic and the wrong chick is into me, your clock is ticking down ... get her back on course to you or she's mine :) like I said, I let my wings know this when we first start hanging out, PLUS I give them signals that the chick is interested in me while we are in the game.

it's all by the book. I am not a cutthroat.

Turns out the 7.5 (40s) is the 9,5's (20's) aunt. The 9,5 is giving me lots & lots of eye, but this is a bit fucking awkward with her aunt, who is also giving eye, sat alongside her plus the guy I know. Hmmm. [Sorry guys, can't see a way to extract, anyway it's far to early.] In a case like that where you are receiving vibes from TWO chicks, especially related ones ... consider EXTRACTING BOTH! the point is that if you take the niece, the aunt will feel rejected and cock-block. if you take the aunt, the niece will not CB, but she will not accept any advances from you BECAUSE you have declared interest in her aunt. what you want to do here is extract the chicks that LIKE YOU from the chicks that DON'T LIKE YOU and the guys.

seperate the targets from the obstacles.

use whatever you have "have you ladies seen the ... " "look, a picture booth ...

I've never taken a picture with an aunt and niece before ... let's go" whatever you have to do to get them both away from the group. once you get away, STAY AWAY! either both will stay with you and you can chat them up and display personality, OR only ONE of them will go back to the group. this way they effectively deceide amongst themselves which one gets you instead of YOU picking one and rejecting the other. if the BOTH try to go back to the group, say "oh cum on. one of you stay with me :)" that should start a debate as to which one will stay and which will go.

Next time I get up & return, everyone is talking amongst themeselves & sort of ignoring me ...

very, very suspiscious. I push my way back into the convo, but it seems to have cooled, the momentum lost. Shortly afterwards, the women get up & leave. I don't push it I'm gonna have to work on CLOSE.

with all that getting up and going back, it SEEMS like this whole interaction took a long time. remember that the idea is NOT to stay with chicks all night.

even the most interesting guy can run out of interesting shit. stay with them until you have demonstrated personality and mde them laugh and are at a high point ... then CUT THEM OFF. tell them you have to do something or it was nice meeting them or whatever and you would like to continue this conversation sometime under quieter circumstances. if your job is done, they will give you numbers and you can leave the group ... EVEN IF IT IS THE BEST THING GOING! you can come back later if you want, but you already have their numbers in case they leave or you need to rush out or catch a chick that wants to fuck right now! even if you have to exit the bar and take a stroll and then come back having done nothing for ten minutes, IMO, closing at a high point and returning later on is MUCH BETTER than talking yourself out and leaving nothing to the chicks' imaginations that makes them want to talk to you in the future.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Thu Jul 29 04:32:53 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.nyu.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols .net!portc02.blue.aol.com!

Subject: Re: Cute Lines: 8 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 28 Jul 1999 16:06:24 GMT References: 379ef191.1310854@news.empireone.net Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990728120624.25862.00000813@ng-cm1.aol.com Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:52380 I will be on the lookout for both sexuality and seductiveness. good explanation Kate :) ... anything, for you.

Kate mmmm ... don't play with me ... you know how I get! ;p~~ From zip@jack.com Thu Jul 29 04:33:03 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!feeder.qis .net!yellow.newsread.com!netaxs.com!newsread.com!POSTED.newshog.newsread.com!not-for-mail From: zip@jack.com (Zipjack) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: Cute Message-ID: 37a03edf.21103871@news.empireone.net References: 379ef191.1310854@news.empireone.net 19990728120624.25862.00000813@ng-cm1.aol.com X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 16 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 17:32:28 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.192.122.39 X-Complaints-To: Abuse Role abuse@empireone.net , We Care abuse@newsread.com X-Trace: newshog.newsread.com 933183148 204.192.122.39 (Wed, 28 Jul 1999 13:32:28 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 28 Jul 1999 13:32:28 EDT Organization: EmpireOne (empireone.net) Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:52411 On 28 Jul 1999 16:06:24 GMT, mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC) wrote: I will be on the lookout for both sexuality and seductiveness. good explanation Kate :) ... anything, for you.

Kate mmmm ... don't play with me ... you know how I get! ;p~~ Is there no end to your charm?

Kate From dc_guy@my-deja.com Thu Jul 29 04:35:14 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal12.airnews .net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!netnews.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail From: dc_guy@my-deja.com Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: More Phone Action Date: Thu, 29 Jul 1999 01:00:29 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

Lines: 20 Message-ID: 7no93a$o8f$1@nnrp1.deja.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.65.99.249 X-Article-Creation-Date: Thu Jul 29 01:00:29 1999 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.5 [en] (Win95; I) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x31.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 63.65.99.249 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDdc_guy Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:52450 Alright here's a quick post ... different girl ... This is the one I met last Thursday.

I left the following message on her machine at 6:00pm and she called me at 7:00pm. All I said was ...

"You find yourself curious to call the phone number XXX-XXX-XXXX."

She called me ... I got her laughing ... then I set a place and time for us to meet Friday ... What did I hear?????

Survey Says!

"YES!"

*BING* "Number 1 answer!"

Sent via Deja.com https://www.deja.com/ Share what you know. Learn what you don't.

From mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d Thu Jul 29 04:37:50 1999 Path: news-f.iadfw .net!cabal1.airnews .net!news.airnews .net!cabal10.airnews .net!remarQ73!supernews.com!remarQ.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gctr .net!dispose.news.demon .net!demon!news.idt .net!news-peer.gip .net!news.gsl .net!gip .net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: mrsex4unyc@aol.comedr4d (MrSex4uNYC) Newsgroups: alt.seduction.fast

Subject: Re: How to seduce two women?

NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 29 Jul 1999 05:50:40 GMT References: 7nokg3$v4r$1@nnrp1.deja.com Organization: AOL https://www.aol.com Message-ID: 19990729015040.23638.00000994@ng-fz1.aol.com Lines: 80 Xref: news-f.iadfw.net alt.seduction.fast:52464 I'd like too hear from you gentlemen if anyone of you has ever managed to seduce two women at a time, or one woman first and then a second to join later.

Greg1 has more "real life" experience with this, but I think I can shed a little light on the subject :) one of the major episodes that led to my frivolous/ridiculous views on chicks today is that in camp (obviously as a kid) I had the privilege of making out with three (read 3) chicks simultaneously (or perhaps in rapid-fire succession without getting up ... they were sitting around me) at the time I was "dating"

another chick who wasn't around when this went down.

what happened was I was dating this one chick but this other one liked me. the chick that liked me HAPPENED to have a couple of girls that followed her around, thus she was the LEADER of the pack. she would always hang out with me and come on to me and the other two would sit around and watch the fun :) on the night in question, we were alone together, all four of us, and I started making out with the leader. the #2 got jealous and actually pulled the leader off of me and started kissing me. then I got rid of her and took the #1 back and kept switching. the #3 was this timid chick that I felt probably had NEVER kissed a boy in her life since she wasn't getting in on the action, so I interrupted the main two and started kissing #3. we all had fun for maybe 1/2 hour then it was time to go to sleep so I kissed them all good night and went to sleep. needless to say, my "girlfriend" was quite pissed over the whole incident (you know camp gossip) even though it was just making out, it illustrates my philosophy on getting multiple chicks.

1) first of all, they have to be good friends. fortunately, in the US, chicks are programmed to be affectionate to each other. you will notice that chicks kiss guys and chicks kiss chicks as well. guys kissing guys is left to europeans, and in the US, fags. you will also notice that there is an abundance of lesbo porno. chicks are naturally going to like to hug each other and kiss each other on the cheek if they are friends.

2) you have to attract the leader and have the leader help you get the second chick ... unless you are attractive to both chicks like I think Dan was saying about a 40s and 20s in a bar. he was getting vibe from both of them, so he should have tried to seduce them as a unit. which brings us to ...

3) do not show any favoritism unless the chicks are competitive. treat the chicks like they are a unit. make them both happy, make them both want you.

make them WANT to share you!

4) unless they are lesbos, DON'T TRY TO GET THEM TO TOUCH EACH OTHER! chicks will make out with you simultaneously like they will share a glass of water :) just don't make it into something they can't stomach. find out the boundaries of what they are BOTH willing to do and take the lowest common denominator ...

until they get really horny that is :) the multiple seduction thing works the best when your basic style is to have female friends that you fuck. that's what I do and I let them all know that's what I do. they get used to the fact that they are sharing me though on different days. this way, if they bring a girlfriend around and I try to seduce her too, there is no FEAR of the woman being REPLACED by her friend.

it's just that I want her too.

6) ease them into it. all three of you play pool together ... all three of you go out to eat together ... all three of you have drinks together ... all three of you watch movies / sleep over together ... get them used to the idea that the THREE of you is a "relationship" and it's ON!

like I said ... Greg1 just had a threesome last weekend and the weekend before that, so he's really the authority ... I defer to him :) but I am an authority on the concept of "free love" such as "I kiss her now in the park ... and I kiss the other chick later on at home ... all the time while we ALL hang out together and have fun"

someone said in a post the other day something like ... most women would rather SHARE a successful man than go out with a faithful loser. I think that is SO KEY! that's why I used to specialize in other guys' girls. the guys take the chicks "off the market" by claiming them as their own, THEN they don't satisfy them HAHAHAHAHA the chicks are CRAVING for some action and I know how to give it to them on the DL and not get them in trouble (or MYSELF) I understand my place in their lives as the fling and nothing more ... at the same time though, these women are not led to believe that I am ONLY dating them behind their man's back. So in effect, they are already sharing me ... the trick is to get them to be friends with other female friends of mine and then IT'S ON!

Document Info

Accesari: 5973
Apreciat:

Comenteaza documentul:

Nu esti inregistrat
Trebuie sa fii utilizator inregistrat pentru a putea comenta

Creaza cont nou

A fost util?

Daca documentul a fost util si crezi ca merita
sa adaugi un link catre el la tine in site

Copiaza codul:
in pagina web a site-ului tau.

eCoduri.com - coduri postale, contabile, CAEN sau bancare

Politica de confidentialitate | Termenii si conditii de utilizare